I absolutely loved the finale (at 54:25) in which Mounk and Goldberg layout why they see a silver lining in the Capitol riot. When a friend called and told me what was happening, my first reaction was, “I think this will be a good thing.”
My reasoning had not been as insightful as Mounk’s and I did not make my point with Goldberg’s vehemence. His imagining of the climactic events as an over-the-top Oliver Stone documentary is not to be missed.
I now feel reassured that I was on the right track — the riot proves once and for all how dangerous Trump was and where he was heading. And as expected, it damaged Trump and his Republicans.
Overall, this is an excellent podcast and it’s a great start to filling in the missing week of analysis (which feels like an eternity) here on Persuasion. So the whole thing is worth a listen.
I would have liked more clarification of what to make of the rioters. Yes, condemn the violent leaders, and condemn all participation. As Goldberg says, of the argument that you can’t make this into a big deal because it makes the right-wing snowflakes feel like victims — “screw that.” But there is a huge difference between condemning what they did and condemning who they are. And neither Mounk nor Goldberg discusses this.
This difference is the result of Trump’s stolen-election conspiracy theory, which was effective and resulted in a brainwashed mob honestly believing they were protecting American democracy. These people know Trump was leading them on, and they know that a day later he threw them under the bus. This opens the door to many interesting questions and to strategies for dividing Trump from his base. Perhaps in the next podcast ...
Goldberg is right on when he says that Trump's appeal is psychological, rather than ideological in nature. The phrase itself, "Trumpism" always seemed off to me. His speech feels as though someone trained Open AI's GPT-3 model on a corpus of used car commercials. How could such a man, with so little interest in abstract ideas or concrete policies be the originator of any kind of "ism" at all? Everything about Trump feels so much more intuitive if we all just accept that his profession is and has always been marketing and branding, all style and no substance.
The only sin that never goes unpunished is arrogance. 4 years ago I promised my classes Trump's horrid shameful end was inevitable. Schadenfreude indeed.
Yascha Mounk and Jonah Goldberg. Good to hear your takes on this.
There are times to get out of the local -- to grasp history and future all at once, and almost forget about Donald. Jonah Goldberg, does this by envisaging another President that won't look like Donald but is apt -- and more dangerous. The impeachment trail is needed for all the uncovering and documentation to be made for history and future use -- regardless of whether there are enough Republican Senators to convict. Note too, that just who are the heroes can change with time.
To add to Jonah Goldberg's on Republicans. The Capitol storming offers a God's send of an opportunity for the Republicans to rid themselves of Donald Trump -- which they have not yet seized. Having Donald as bogeyman in the wings for possibly years ahead will be unhelpful (and unpleasant) for most Republicans apart from those hallucinatory souls planning to step into the old master's shoes and adopt his following. Unfortunately, Mike Pence failed to evoke the 25th Amendment which unnecessarily exposed the US to all the security risks of not having a functioning Administration for 2 weeks more than need be. So be it, impeachment.
I absolutely loved the finale (at 54:25) in which Mounk and Goldberg layout why they see a silver lining in the Capitol riot. When a friend called and told me what was happening, my first reaction was, “I think this will be a good thing.”
My reasoning had not been as insightful as Mounk’s and I did not make my point with Goldberg’s vehemence. His imagining of the climactic events as an over-the-top Oliver Stone documentary is not to be missed.
I now feel reassured that I was on the right track — the riot proves once and for all how dangerous Trump was and where he was heading. And as expected, it damaged Trump and his Republicans.
Overall, this is an excellent podcast and it’s a great start to filling in the missing week of analysis (which feels like an eternity) here on Persuasion. So the whole thing is worth a listen.
I would have liked more clarification of what to make of the rioters. Yes, condemn the violent leaders, and condemn all participation. As Goldberg says, of the argument that you can’t make this into a big deal because it makes the right-wing snowflakes feel like victims — “screw that.” But there is a huge difference between condemning what they did and condemning who they are. And neither Mounk nor Goldberg discusses this.
This difference is the result of Trump’s stolen-election conspiracy theory, which was effective and resulted in a brainwashed mob honestly believing they were protecting American democracy. These people know Trump was leading them on, and they know that a day later he threw them under the bus. This opens the door to many interesting questions and to strategies for dividing Trump from his base. Perhaps in the next podcast ...
Goldberg is right on when he says that Trump's appeal is psychological, rather than ideological in nature. The phrase itself, "Trumpism" always seemed off to me. His speech feels as though someone trained Open AI's GPT-3 model on a corpus of used car commercials. How could such a man, with so little interest in abstract ideas or concrete policies be the originator of any kind of "ism" at all? Everything about Trump feels so much more intuitive if we all just accept that his profession is and has always been marketing and branding, all style and no substance.
The only sin that never goes unpunished is arrogance. 4 years ago I promised my classes Trump's horrid shameful end was inevitable. Schadenfreude indeed.
Yascha and Jonah in one podcast and it's not even my birthday.
Yascha Mounk and Jonah Goldberg. Good to hear your takes on this.
There are times to get out of the local -- to grasp history and future all at once, and almost forget about Donald. Jonah Goldberg, does this by envisaging another President that won't look like Donald but is apt -- and more dangerous. The impeachment trail is needed for all the uncovering and documentation to be made for history and future use -- regardless of whether there are enough Republican Senators to convict. Note too, that just who are the heroes can change with time.
To add to Jonah Goldberg's on Republicans. The Capitol storming offers a God's send of an opportunity for the Republicans to rid themselves of Donald Trump -- which they have not yet seized. Having Donald as bogeyman in the wings for possibly years ahead will be unhelpful (and unpleasant) for most Republicans apart from those hallucinatory souls planning to step into the old master's shoes and adopt his following. Unfortunately, Mike Pence failed to evoke the 25th Amendment which unnecessarily exposed the US to all the security risks of not having a functioning Administration for 2 weeks more than need be. So be it, impeachment.
Many thanks to you both