Liberals are kicking a heavy can down the road by insisting there's a "sane middle" here. Where's the sane middle for body integrity disorder or anorexia? Do some people have no choice but to cut off limbs or starve themselves as close to death as possible without actually dying to live full lives? Sex dysphoria is a body dysmorphia diso…
Liberals are kicking a heavy can down the road by insisting there's a "sane middle" here. Where's the sane middle for body integrity disorder or anorexia? Do some people have no choice but to cut off limbs or starve themselves as close to death as possible without actually dying to live full lives? Sex dysphoria is a body dysmorphia disorder just like all the others, but it's the only one we're supposed to pretend is treated by encouraging it. Those of us who have suffered sex dysphoria but don't fit the easy to condemn youth-related cases, adults who are largely autistic or mentally ill, are not content to find this middle with you. Everyone deserves to be at peace with their bodies. It is not acceptable to write some of us off as hopeless cases, doomed to accept what our mental illness tells us. No other mental illness is treated this way, where the distortions caused by it are enabled and encouraged.
And yes, of course everyone knows A Happy Transsexual. I know many myself who are quite different in private from the persona they use online. Happiness with irreversible choices can be put on quite easily considering the alternative is facing the irreversibility. It won't be easy to have this larger conversation but vulnerable people need it to happen. This is not going to just become accepted like homosexuality has been (primarily because homosexuality is not a mental illness that requires treatment and the vast majority of people intuitively understand that at this point).
Thank you for responding, and for your impassioned and beautiful comment below. I comment this message wherever I think it has a chance of breaking through and I rarely receive any engagement. I understand to an extent; it's embarrassing for me to post, and I think it's awkward for people without ~lived experience~ (for lack of a better descriptor) to contend with. We have to though. If this middle way wins out then youth transition might stop but it will be gay, autistic, and mentally ill adults who continue to be fed to the meat grinder.
I agree with the substance of what you've written, @C.C -- but think that there's a "sane middle" that incorporates your concerns. Please see my own comment about treating this phenomenon as a disability issue.
Thank you for sharing, Mitchell. If by treatment you mean access to comprehensive psychotherapy that can address the root of the dysmorphia, I totally agree with you. However, I do not agree that there is a group of people who need what currently passes for "trans health care" or to permanently deny the reality of their bodies.
(I accidentally responded to another comment of yours first, oops!)
When "the root of the dysmorphia" is a brain-body mismatch (due to a neurological or hormonal anomaly), psychotherapy might not be a viable option. (In these cases, we're dealing with a biological phenomenon.)
OTOH, calling the remedy for this disability "trans health care" -- i.e., casting it as a matter of "gender identity" -- is indeed a tendentious (and obnoxiously political) dodge. My cat doesn't concern herself with "gender identity" -- but perhaps weasels do! ;-)
There's no evidence for such a mismatch or biological phenomenon though, just like any other body dysmorphia disorder. To accept that there might be, there would need to be a test that proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a person actually had that mismatch, and even then, I'm quite skeptical. I simply do not believe that any dysmorphias should be validated with irreversible (or not, really) changes to the body.
The "science" doesn't exist -- if indeed, it ever will -- to ascertain the neurological basis of consciousness -- let alone for the host of brain/body interactions. But we certainly know that there's a neurological basis for "phantom limb" phenomena (even if we don't [yet] know the details), and we know that hormonal anomalies (in fully-developed animals and humans, and in the womb) -- and for that matter, even "normal" hormonal functions that affect self-perception -- are biologically real.
That's my basis for allowing for "a brain/body mismatch" -- even if there's no definitive test. I believe that recognizing such a phenomenon as a disability should provide the appropriate perspective, and should be sufficient for putting the "gender weasels" in their place.
We're talking past each other now; I do not think anyone should be "treated" for any body dysmorphia, including sex dysphoria, by encouraging the dysmorphia. I do not think people with body integrity disorder should be able to have limbs cut off due to their dysmorphia, I think they deserve the intensive psychotherapy it would take to resolve the issue holistically so that their body stops being a source of distress. I do not think anorectics should be encouraged to starve themselves, I think they deserve the psychotherapy needed to stop the desire to waste away. I do not think people with sex dysphoria should "live as" the opposite sex, take cross sex hormones, which cause devastating effects in the female body (not as familiar with what estrogen does to males), or get surgeries because of their distressing thoughts, I think they deserve the psychotherapy needed to stop the fantasy of "if i change my sex i'll finally feel better." I think these "treatments" are barbaric because they do not address the suffering of the patient at all.
Liberals are kicking a heavy can down the road by insisting there's a "sane middle" here. Where's the sane middle for body integrity disorder or anorexia? Do some people have no choice but to cut off limbs or starve themselves as close to death as possible without actually dying to live full lives? Sex dysphoria is a body dysmorphia disorder just like all the others, but it's the only one we're supposed to pretend is treated by encouraging it. Those of us who have suffered sex dysphoria but don't fit the easy to condemn youth-related cases, adults who are largely autistic or mentally ill, are not content to find this middle with you. Everyone deserves to be at peace with their bodies. It is not acceptable to write some of us off as hopeless cases, doomed to accept what our mental illness tells us. No other mental illness is treated this way, where the distortions caused by it are enabled and encouraged.
And yes, of course everyone knows A Happy Transsexual. I know many myself who are quite different in private from the persona they use online. Happiness with irreversible choices can be put on quite easily considering the alternative is facing the irreversibility. It won't be easy to have this larger conversation but vulnerable people need it to happen. This is not going to just become accepted like homosexuality has been (primarily because homosexuality is not a mental illness that requires treatment and the vast majority of people intuitively understand that at this point).
Beautifully said. Thank you for posting.
Thank you for responding, and for your impassioned and beautiful comment below. I comment this message wherever I think it has a chance of breaking through and I rarely receive any engagement. I understand to an extent; it's embarrassing for me to post, and I think it's awkward for people without ~lived experience~ (for lack of a better descriptor) to contend with. We have to though. If this middle way wins out then youth transition might stop but it will be gay, autistic, and mentally ill adults who continue to be fed to the meat grinder.
I agree with the substance of what you've written, @C.C -- but think that there's a "sane middle" that incorporates your concerns. Please see my own comment about treating this phenomenon as a disability issue.
Thank you for sharing, Mitchell. If by treatment you mean access to comprehensive psychotherapy that can address the root of the dysmorphia, I totally agree with you. However, I do not agree that there is a group of people who need what currently passes for "trans health care" or to permanently deny the reality of their bodies.
(I accidentally responded to another comment of yours first, oops!)
When "the root of the dysmorphia" is a brain-body mismatch (due to a neurological or hormonal anomaly), psychotherapy might not be a viable option. (In these cases, we're dealing with a biological phenomenon.)
OTOH, calling the remedy for this disability "trans health care" -- i.e., casting it as a matter of "gender identity" -- is indeed a tendentious (and obnoxiously political) dodge. My cat doesn't concern herself with "gender identity" -- but perhaps weasels do! ;-)
There's no evidence for such a mismatch or biological phenomenon though, just like any other body dysmorphia disorder. To accept that there might be, there would need to be a test that proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a person actually had that mismatch, and even then, I'm quite skeptical. I simply do not believe that any dysmorphias should be validated with irreversible (or not, really) changes to the body.
The "science" doesn't exist -- if indeed, it ever will -- to ascertain the neurological basis of consciousness -- let alone for the host of brain/body interactions. But we certainly know that there's a neurological basis for "phantom limb" phenomena (even if we don't [yet] know the details), and we know that hormonal anomalies (in fully-developed animals and humans, and in the womb) -- and for that matter, even "normal" hormonal functions that affect self-perception -- are biologically real.
That's my basis for allowing for "a brain/body mismatch" -- even if there's no definitive test. I believe that recognizing such a phenomenon as a disability should provide the appropriate perspective, and should be sufficient for putting the "gender weasels" in their place.
We're talking past each other now; I do not think anyone should be "treated" for any body dysmorphia, including sex dysphoria, by encouraging the dysmorphia. I do not think people with body integrity disorder should be able to have limbs cut off due to their dysmorphia, I think they deserve the intensive psychotherapy it would take to resolve the issue holistically so that their body stops being a source of distress. I do not think anorectics should be encouraged to starve themselves, I think they deserve the psychotherapy needed to stop the desire to waste away. I do not think people with sex dysphoria should "live as" the opposite sex, take cross sex hormones, which cause devastating effects in the female body (not as familiar with what estrogen does to males), or get surgeries because of their distressing thoughts, I think they deserve the psychotherapy needed to stop the fantasy of "if i change my sex i'll finally feel better." I think these "treatments" are barbaric because they do not address the suffering of the patient at all.