And might I add, that the 20 years of being start pupils of transition liberalism ended with economic collapse and crisis from 2005-2011 ended by... whom? And this has radically improved the living standards of Hungarians, and particularly outside of the city.
I remember sitting in 2010 on the Czech Slovak border and friends had return…
And might I add, that the 20 years of being start pupils of transition liberalism ended with economic collapse and crisis from 2005-2011 ended by... whom? And this has radically improved the living standards of Hungarians, and particularly outside of the city.
I remember sitting in 2010 on the Czech Slovak border and friends had returned from Hungary with 100 year old Tokaji that once would have gone for 200 Euro that they got a case of for that much because the crisis had basically hollowed out the value of the country. We talked about it. the Czech and Slovaks took it rather solemly after the second bottle. "I wouldn't want this to happen to our cultural treasures' they said. IT was a humiliation. Orban came in and turned it around and distributed generous family oriented benefits.
That's why 'Hate the O-man' strategy didn't work in Hungary but it could work in the US.
And he is winning. Fidesz vote share does nothing but increase, with election observers finding virtually no problems.
They, along with Romanians, are probably the most anti-Semitic and anti-Roma people in the world. Interesting that the article mentions Fidesz burning ballots from Romania. Europe is always full of very strange bedfellows but we in the US need to ally with the ones least supportive of Hitler/Stalin/Putin types.
I suppose. I find the way westerners relate to the Roma issue... rather ridiculous. IT just isn't so straightforward. I could be wrong, but I am assuming you have never lived for a long time in a country-region with a large Roma presence? It's not a simple issue of needing to have 'good civic citizenship attitudes'. The 'Roma question' is difficult because Roma, by and large, DO NOT WANT any more than Orban does to integrate into one civic community. Orban & Roma general have an 'us' and 'them' ethnic attitude. I like to say that the Roma question is like the challenges of Native American relations, the African American relations, and the Latin American relations, overlayed with legacy of communism, and then foisted upon poorer countries. It's *really* hard.
So, even if it was true that - say - Hungary was more anti-roma than the Czech Republic (which I doubt) - it wouldn't tell me much. I should note - given you follow up - that Roma and Romanians have no real overlap, ethnically. Romanians are romance language speaking, and Roma speak a remote indo-european language akin to language spoken in Northern India. I assure you that Orban and Fidesz officials know this.
Anti-semitism is just bewildering as accusations go. I can't find any evidence of it either in my experience or in any studies. I have seen far more anti-semitism in Western Europe than Eastern Europe... and particularly Hungary.
This report - which is the most broad and comparative I could find at short notice - seems to utterly decimate this accusation (And also corresponds well to my experience). It correctly shows that Islamophobia is extraordinarily high in Hungary. This is not surprising, given it is a people who were repeatedly attacked and enslaved by Ottomans.
As to 'supporting Putin types'. This is honestly just silly. Orban has denounced the invasion, and his policy vis-a-vis Russia are almost indistinguishable from Germany's or the Netherlands. It's unclear why Westerners would spend a decade slandering and libelling Hungary and it leadership and then be aghast when they aren't first in light at the solidarity parade, when countries like Germany and the Netherlands are hemming and hawing.
And might I add, that the 20 years of being start pupils of transition liberalism ended with economic collapse and crisis from 2005-2011 ended by... whom? And this has radically improved the living standards of Hungarians, and particularly outside of the city.
I remember sitting in 2010 on the Czech Slovak border and friends had returned from Hungary with 100 year old Tokaji that once would have gone for 200 Euro that they got a case of for that much because the crisis had basically hollowed out the value of the country. We talked about it. the Czech and Slovaks took it rather solemly after the second bottle. "I wouldn't want this to happen to our cultural treasures' they said. IT was a humiliation. Orban came in and turned it around and distributed generous family oriented benefits.
That's why 'Hate the O-man' strategy didn't work in Hungary but it could work in the US.
And he is winning. Fidesz vote share does nothing but increase, with election observers finding virtually no problems.
Thank you for the color commentary. I love Hungary and the Hungarian people.
They, along with Romanians, are probably the most anti-Semitic and anti-Roma people in the world. Interesting that the article mentions Fidesz burning ballots from Romania. Europe is always full of very strange bedfellows but we in the US need to ally with the ones least supportive of Hitler/Stalin/Putin types.
I suppose. I find the way westerners relate to the Roma issue... rather ridiculous. IT just isn't so straightforward. I could be wrong, but I am assuming you have never lived for a long time in a country-region with a large Roma presence? It's not a simple issue of needing to have 'good civic citizenship attitudes'. The 'Roma question' is difficult because Roma, by and large, DO NOT WANT any more than Orban does to integrate into one civic community. Orban & Roma general have an 'us' and 'them' ethnic attitude. I like to say that the Roma question is like the challenges of Native American relations, the African American relations, and the Latin American relations, overlayed with legacy of communism, and then foisted upon poorer countries. It's *really* hard.
So, even if it was true that - say - Hungary was more anti-roma than the Czech Republic (which I doubt) - it wouldn't tell me much. I should note - given you follow up - that Roma and Romanians have no real overlap, ethnically. Romanians are romance language speaking, and Roma speak a remote indo-european language akin to language spoken in Northern India. I assure you that Orban and Fidesz officials know this.
Anti-semitism is just bewildering as accusations go. I can't find any evidence of it either in my experience or in any studies. I have seen far more anti-semitism in Western Europe than Eastern Europe... and particularly Hungary.
This report - which is the most broad and comparative I could find at short notice - seems to utterly decimate this accusation (And also corresponds well to my experience). It correctly shows that Islamophobia is extraordinarily high in Hungary. This is not surprising, given it is a people who were repeatedly attacked and enslaved by Ottomans.
As to 'supporting Putin types'. This is honestly just silly. Orban has denounced the invasion, and his policy vis-a-vis Russia are almost indistinguishable from Germany's or the Netherlands. It's unclear why Westerners would spend a decade slandering and libelling Hungary and it leadership and then be aghast when they aren't first in light at the solidarity parade, when countries like Germany and the Netherlands are hemming and hawing.
The report: https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2018-experiences-and-perceptions-of-antisemitism-survey_en.pdf