An excellent interview and, perhaps more important, a break in the news blackout in the U.S. of the Cass Report and earlier actions by European health services putting the brakes on so-called "gender affirming care". I might have wished there were more time fo Dr Joyce to elaborate on a couple of points, but they at least were mentioned. She did refer to the fact that many children showing signs of gender problems, in effect, grow out of it. What has alarmed me is that a huge fraction of them, provided they aren't molested with cancer drugs and wrong sex hormones, will simply mature into perfectly ordinary gay teens - roughly 80% of boys and 90% of girls, according to the Cass Report. (Other studies I've seen report results in the same ballpark.) What brings me close to tears are anecdotes of children who seek transition because they imagine it will provide an escape from sexual abuse or who can't accept their emerging same sex attractions for whatever reason. The ideologues' slogan, "The kids know who they are" is drooling, knuckle dragging nonsense. The Tavistok staffer was right to worry, "What are we going to do when we run out of gay kids?"
Another crack in the news blackout is an hour long interview of Dr Cass herself on the NPR program "On Point" found at:
What should worry every woman (and every girl's father) is the recent promulgation by the U.S. Department of Education of new regulations for Title IX. These regs, which remember have the force of law, provide that for purposes of Title IX, the term "sex" means "sexual identification".
I thoroughly enjoyed the interview. In particular, Ms. Joyce's insistence that Mr. Mounk's framing the issue where we assume that these treatments are appropriate for some children is wrong and her unclouded view of the motives behind things like the suicide scare. These are things I have intuited for a long time, but having never studied the matter I had to accept that I could be quite wrong. I could still be quite wrong, with all due respect, but at least now I’d be in good company.
if you are a typical woman in the UK who feels strongly that there has been overreach in the trans …you're actually typically left-wing, you call yourself a feminist, you're active in the Labour Party. …those women are not saying to get rid of abortion, or to go back to traditional gender roles. They're saying the opposite. They're saying women can be whoever they want to be, men can be whoever they want to be. Don't let your biology hold you back'.
I made this point in a paper I read at a conference, now revised and out to a journal but got flak: here in the US trans advocacy and feminism (along with all the other stuff perceived as Left) is all part of one political package. It is just impossible to escape. Last semester a lawyer from our DEI dept came to my office to threaten me because a student in my logic class complained that I’d used ‘All mothers are women’ (from the textbook) as an example of a categorical proposition.
What bugs me most is that this isn’t helping gender misfits like me. Women still cannot be whatever we want to be because discrimination in employment is still a fact of life. Occupational sex segregation is still the norm for most jobs—and hasn’t diminished since the 1990s. I teach this stuff, I have the statistics, but no one is paying attention. No one noticed the Walmart sex discrimination suit involving 1.5 million women which was dismissed because the class was too large and diverse. As of the last statistic I have the most common job title for women is still ‘secretary’. 1/3 of secretaries have 4-year college degrees.
This trans campaign is a distraction. And my dark suspicion is that it’s gotten traction because it’s harmless, not economically disruptive as it would be if women's job options were expanded. The economy depends on large groups of women who have no other options doing low-wage, boring pink-collar drudge work in the service sector.
@H.E. - Your encounter with the DIE enforcer is a perfect illustration of real objectives of the radical trans ideologues, to deny material reality and compel people to accept their delusions as true. I think it was Orwell who pointed out that the critical feature of a totalitarian regime is its power to make citizens believe falsehoods.
I do want to make it clear though that my primary objection to this silly BS is that it distracts from and acts as a substitute for real efforts to ameliorate gross ongoing discrimination and end occupational sex segregation. For which I favor draconian affirmative action--with hard quotas which, unfortunately, are now illegal.
I sincerely appreciate Helen’s deeply compassionate, thoughtful, and accommodating stance around trans people and trans issues—which are ultimately the logical conclusion of her liberal principles—articulated so wonderfully in the homestretch of the episode
Thank you so much to the Persuasion team for sharing this conversation, which I think is so, so important in this moment
I've never once met a trans individual in person who hasn't been completely easygoing and lovely to interact with, and I hope that Helen’s argument for supporting them to the greatest extent, while acknowledging the reality of biological sex, finds traction in the debate around this issue
An excellent interview and, perhaps more important, a break in the news blackout in the U.S. of the Cass Report and earlier actions by European health services putting the brakes on so-called "gender affirming care". I might have wished there were more time fo Dr Joyce to elaborate on a couple of points, but they at least were mentioned. She did refer to the fact that many children showing signs of gender problems, in effect, grow out of it. What has alarmed me is that a huge fraction of them, provided they aren't molested with cancer drugs and wrong sex hormones, will simply mature into perfectly ordinary gay teens - roughly 80% of boys and 90% of girls, according to the Cass Report. (Other studies I've seen report results in the same ballpark.) What brings me close to tears are anecdotes of children who seek transition because they imagine it will provide an escape from sexual abuse or who can't accept their emerging same sex attractions for whatever reason. The ideologues' slogan, "The kids know who they are" is drooling, knuckle dragging nonsense. The Tavistok staffer was right to worry, "What are we going to do when we run out of gay kids?"
Another crack in the news blackout is an hour long interview of Dr Cass herself on the NPR program "On Point" found at:
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2024/05/08/nhs-hilary-cass-review-gender-transgender-care
The full program audio is here:
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2024/05/08/hilary-cass-review-caution-nhs-gender-affirming-care-youth
What should worry every woman (and every girl's father) is the recent promulgation by the U.S. Department of Education of new regulations for Title IX. These regs, which remember have the force of law, provide that for purposes of Title IX, the term "sex" means "sexual identification".
I thoroughly enjoyed the interview. In particular, Ms. Joyce's insistence that Mr. Mounk's framing the issue where we assume that these treatments are appropriate for some children is wrong and her unclouded view of the motives behind things like the suicide scare. These are things I have intuited for a long time, but having never studied the matter I had to accept that I could be quite wrong. I could still be quite wrong, with all due respect, but at least now I’d be in good company.
Great interview. HJ’s book is a revelation.
if you are a typical woman in the UK who feels strongly that there has been overreach in the trans …you're actually typically left-wing, you call yourself a feminist, you're active in the Labour Party. …those women are not saying to get rid of abortion, or to go back to traditional gender roles. They're saying the opposite. They're saying women can be whoever they want to be, men can be whoever they want to be. Don't let your biology hold you back'.
I made this point in a paper I read at a conference, now revised and out to a journal but got flak: here in the US trans advocacy and feminism (along with all the other stuff perceived as Left) is all part of one political package. It is just impossible to escape. Last semester a lawyer from our DEI dept came to my office to threaten me because a student in my logic class complained that I’d used ‘All mothers are women’ (from the textbook) as an example of a categorical proposition.
What bugs me most is that this isn’t helping gender misfits like me. Women still cannot be whatever we want to be because discrimination in employment is still a fact of life. Occupational sex segregation is still the norm for most jobs—and hasn’t diminished since the 1990s. I teach this stuff, I have the statistics, but no one is paying attention. No one noticed the Walmart sex discrimination suit involving 1.5 million women which was dismissed because the class was too large and diverse. As of the last statistic I have the most common job title for women is still ‘secretary’. 1/3 of secretaries have 4-year college degrees.
This trans campaign is a distraction. And my dark suspicion is that it’s gotten traction because it’s harmless, not economically disruptive as it would be if women's job options were expanded. The economy depends on large groups of women who have no other options doing low-wage, boring pink-collar drudge work in the service sector.
@H.E. - Your encounter with the DIE enforcer is a perfect illustration of real objectives of the radical trans ideologues, to deny material reality and compel people to accept their delusions as true. I think it was Orwell who pointed out that the critical feature of a totalitarian regime is its power to make citizens believe falsehoods.
That, sir, is what tenure is for.
I do want to make it clear though that my primary objection to this silly BS is that it distracts from and acts as a substitute for real efforts to ameliorate gross ongoing discrimination and end occupational sex segregation. For which I favor draconian affirmative action--with hard quotas which, unfortunately, are now illegal.
Excellent conversation. Fascinating issues.Compassion + rationality+ reality. Yes.
I sincerely appreciate Helen’s deeply compassionate, thoughtful, and accommodating stance around trans people and trans issues—which are ultimately the logical conclusion of her liberal principles—articulated so wonderfully in the homestretch of the episode
Thank you so much to the Persuasion team for sharing this conversation, which I think is so, so important in this moment
I've never once met a trans individual in person who hasn't been completely easygoing and lovely to interact with, and I hope that Helen’s argument for supporting them to the greatest extent, while acknowledging the reality of biological sex, finds traction in the debate around this issue