It is a pure pleasure listening to John McWhorter (and yes, I'm aware that I can be accused of racism for saying that, something at which I can only laugh).
The conversation was also more banter-y than usual. I remember my email to Mr. Mounk when I signed up for a Persuasion subscription; I suggested that the staff try smiling in theirβ¦
It is a pure pleasure listening to John McWhorter (and yes, I'm aware that I can be accused of racism for saying that, something at which I can only laugh).
The conversation was also more banter-y than usual. I remember my email to Mr. Mounk when I signed up for a Persuasion subscription; I suggested that the staff try smiling in their head-shots, rather than looking like fashion-magazine models. McWhorter's chuckles bespoke a good attitude toward the exchange of ideas, which some thinkers have claimed reaches its highest form in play.
I have a couple of questions that perhaps Mr. McWhorter can relate to, should he view these comments, or really anybody here would be welcome:
1. I have the sense that some progressives found themselves in a situation some years ago where they categorically denied that America had become less racist but couldn't find enough racist behavior on a national scale to justify that belief. They first attempted to align their belief with their observations by claiming that people actually π’π³π¦ racist but simply don't realize it, thus the Implicit Bias Test. Unfortunately for them, the IBT wasn't up to the task (inconsistent results, lack of proof that what was detected was actually racism...), so the next step was Institutional Racism -- ie., Racism w/o Racists. I'm curious whether that's a plausible reading of events
2. I've been asking in a number of forums, having failed to achieve enlightenment from Google and Wikipedia, for examples of Institutional (or Structural, and if they're not actually the same thing I'm curious to know about that too) Racism. And I mean as something other than the lingering effects of past racism or something that can be attributed to intentional racism (so no, redlining doesn't qualify, ticketing for "driving while black" doesn't count and the problems of poor people of all races don't count. And because this is the the Internet I will clarify that this is an earnest question -- possibly naive, but not sarcastic.
Problems of poor people of all races is exactly where structural racism is! The reason it can go unnoticed is due to that structural racism - and yes ALL poor people suffer from it! In many cases, all people suffer from it but poor people more than most (or at least first).
Water quality and environmental hazards of all kinds hurt poor people the most but racism is often the reason why many people feel they can ignore it. Another is something McWhorter mentioned but didn't go far enough (IMO). He mentioned that many schools have decided not to do suspensions and this primarily hurts African Americans because many schools that are African American (read: urban) have 99-100% black and brown students.
So much of the resources that are important for students learning - such as no lead or pathogens in tap water - are in neighborhoods of poverty. We could fix this problem by making it everyone's problem by integrating neighborhoods. While neighborhoods are segregated by income, racism is often what keeps them from being integrated.
The reason you can't find it is for this reason: Black and brown people are more often poor AND lumped in with other poor whites but racism is the glue that holds this particular status quo together.
The big problem is that a lot of what is primarily affecting poor areas and POC today can be ignored by those in power to their own detriment. Climate change and poor quality drinking water are not staying in one place.
I must admit, though, to not seeing the "structure" of the racism here. If the proximal cause of a problem like leaded water is poverty, not race, then even though racial minorities make up a disproportionate number of the poor there's no racism.
If the problem doesn't gain sufficient public awareness because it mostly affects racial minorities then that's racist, but it's personal, not structural.
If the problem is simply π±π²π³πΆπ»π²π± as racist because it has a racially-weighted πΏπ²πππΉπ, well, I don't consider that a racist structure either. By that definition sunburn is a racist structure.
Yes it may be personal (en masse) or individual racism that keeps those who can change the situation apathetic but the fact that these apathetic people are in power is structural. :)
I'm not 'woke' or any of that but I am FURIOUS that nothing about real environmental or climate related issues can be acknowledged much less solved because it hasn't affected the elite enough yet.
Thanks again. I'm not taking a side in this either, I'm just trying to understand whether "Systemic Racism" (or whatever we're calling it) really means something and, if it does mean something, whether it exists. I gather from your answer -- and the attached smiley -- that what you've described so far doesn't quite fit.
It is a pure pleasure listening to John McWhorter (and yes, I'm aware that I can be accused of racism for saying that, something at which I can only laugh).
The conversation was also more banter-y than usual. I remember my email to Mr. Mounk when I signed up for a Persuasion subscription; I suggested that the staff try smiling in their head-shots, rather than looking like fashion-magazine models. McWhorter's chuckles bespoke a good attitude toward the exchange of ideas, which some thinkers have claimed reaches its highest form in play.
I have a couple of questions that perhaps Mr. McWhorter can relate to, should he view these comments, or really anybody here would be welcome:
1. I have the sense that some progressives found themselves in a situation some years ago where they categorically denied that America had become less racist but couldn't find enough racist behavior on a national scale to justify that belief. They first attempted to align their belief with their observations by claiming that people actually π’π³π¦ racist but simply don't realize it, thus the Implicit Bias Test. Unfortunately for them, the IBT wasn't up to the task (inconsistent results, lack of proof that what was detected was actually racism...), so the next step was Institutional Racism -- ie., Racism w/o Racists. I'm curious whether that's a plausible reading of events
2. I've been asking in a number of forums, having failed to achieve enlightenment from Google and Wikipedia, for examples of Institutional (or Structural, and if they're not actually the same thing I'm curious to know about that too) Racism. And I mean as something other than the lingering effects of past racism or something that can be attributed to intentional racism (so no, redlining doesn't qualify, ticketing for "driving while black" doesn't count and the problems of poor people of all races don't count. And because this is the the Internet I will clarify that this is an earnest question -- possibly naive, but not sarcastic.
Problems of poor people of all races is exactly where structural racism is! The reason it can go unnoticed is due to that structural racism - and yes ALL poor people suffer from it! In many cases, all people suffer from it but poor people more than most (or at least first).
Water quality and environmental hazards of all kinds hurt poor people the most but racism is often the reason why many people feel they can ignore it. Another is something McWhorter mentioned but didn't go far enough (IMO). He mentioned that many schools have decided not to do suspensions and this primarily hurts African Americans because many schools that are African American (read: urban) have 99-100% black and brown students.
So much of the resources that are important for students learning - such as no lead or pathogens in tap water - are in neighborhoods of poverty. We could fix this problem by making it everyone's problem by integrating neighborhoods. While neighborhoods are segregated by income, racism is often what keeps them from being integrated.
The reason you can't find it is for this reason: Black and brown people are more often poor AND lumped in with other poor whites but racism is the glue that holds this particular status quo together.
The big problem is that a lot of what is primarily affecting poor areas and POC today can be ignored by those in power to their own detriment. Climate change and poor quality drinking water are not staying in one place.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful response.
I must admit, though, to not seeing the "structure" of the racism here. If the proximal cause of a problem like leaded water is poverty, not race, then even though racial minorities make up a disproportionate number of the poor there's no racism.
If the problem doesn't gain sufficient public awareness because it mostly affects racial minorities then that's racist, but it's personal, not structural.
If the problem is simply π±π²π³πΆπ»π²π± as racist because it has a racially-weighted πΏπ²πππΉπ, well, I don't consider that a racist structure either. By that definition sunburn is a racist structure.
Yes it may be personal (en masse) or individual racism that keeps those who can change the situation apathetic but the fact that these apathetic people are in power is structural. :)
I'm not 'woke' or any of that but I am FURIOUS that nothing about real environmental or climate related issues can be acknowledged much less solved because it hasn't affected the elite enough yet.
Thanks again. I'm not taking a side in this either, I'm just trying to understand whether "Systemic Racism" (or whatever we're calling it) really means something and, if it does mean something, whether it exists. I gather from your answer -- and the attached smiley -- that what you've described so far doesn't quite fit.