Reduce consumption of alcohol? Seems like a good idea in general. However, why make this a semi-political / cultural valence? If you don't want to drink, don't drink. If you want to drink occasionally and socially, do so. I very seriously doubt there's any real risk unless you drink an excessive amount or have excessive occasions where you drink. Stopping entirely makes sense if you can't control it after you start. Stopping entirely when that's not an issue is cutting out one of life's enjoyable experiences. Again, fine if you choose to do so. Unnecessary to make that choice a political issue.
Am I the only one who thought it was weird that the author claimed not to be an alcoholic or a binge drinker, but then claimed to get back *hours of the day to be productive* when he stopped drinking? Maybe I simply don't have enough experience with alcohol, but that doesn't seem to follow. I've been drunk plenty of times in my life, but the only time it was anywhere near frequent was college, and even then, it was less than once per week. After I graduated, it was maybe a couple of times per year.
What I meant is a little subtle. It wasn't that I would spend the evening binge drinking, but the whole mentality of office life and of Western social life in general is an on/off mindset. You're supposed to be 'on' during the day and then there's a moment when you switch 'off' in the evening and you become a person of leisure as opposed to a working person. The symbol for that is the first drink. It's considered very bad form - often a fireable offense - to drink during the day, but as soon as you leave the office and go to the bar with co-workers or have a glass of wine with dinner, you're in leisure mode. Two things happened in my life at around the same time - one was moving from office life into post-pandemic remote work life; and the other was quitting drinking - and, taken together, the two things really restructured my day. I stopped seeing myself in this sort of on/off way, and tried to restructure my day to doing what I loved with as much time as I could find - which was writing and reading, as opposed to switching to off-mode.
You're right of course that this isn't necessarily a political issue, except that politics is downstream of culture, and as we move out of the office 9-5 (and more seriously take in some of the deleterious effects of alcohol) we may find ourselves looking at drinking in a different way.
Thank you for the response. I'm not entirely sure I follow how the on / off mindset relates specifically to alcohol, but your original points about regaining lost time certainly makes more sense when combined with other lifestyle changes; I can see how multiple factors would contribute.
I think that part of my confusion probably stems from my comparatively subdued social activities; dinners with friends were not terribly common (I ate with my girlfriend / wife, or alone, and didn't drink in either case), and when we did meet for dinner, alcohol was not a universal (though it was not uncommon).
I don't disagree, but can we pick a different month? If alcohol didn't exist, January would cause it to spontaneously burst into existence. And thank God. Let's go with May.
This might be a statement more about myself than people in general, but I feel like people enjoy either sipping or eating while socializing and feel awkward when they are not. It gives you something to do when it’s not your turn to speak. And it seems natural even when you are sitting by yourself in relaxatin.
I feel this is what smoking, drinkng coffee or tea, or drinking alcohol all have in common. It’s that they tap into the “social sipping instinct” (or social-relaxing sipping instinct)
In times when I’m not drinking -for example as a designated driver - I find I simply have to continually sip something, even if it means I’ll have downed 4 full glasses of plain water over a night.
Totally! The main point with alcohol is that it really reduces social anxiety, and there's much to be said for that - but we all pay a real price for it (and that price is underestimated even for people who aren't actually alcoholics).
You sissy prohibition Karens high on cannabis eating your brains... sure, go ahead and make your choice to not drink alcohol BUT STOP YOUR FUCKING STUPID ACTIVISM AGAINST A LONG STANDING FOOD PRODUCT CONSUMED BY BILLIONS AND THAT PREDATES YOUR IDIOCY AND YOUR UNFORTUNATE BIRTH. FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT MOST OF YOU ARE FAT AND HAVE TERRIBLE EATING HABBITS.
Focus on the sugar and other crap in our food supply from big food. If you are really advocating for people to be more healthy, this isn’t a worthy target. Ethyl alcohol is in every fermented food because it occurs naturally and those countries that eat a lot of fermented food tend to have much longer life expectancy.
Based on your story, like my best friend that is 12 years sober, and me because of health issues, you should not drink alcohol. But to start a crusade against it to grab some higher moral status… well that is the same twitch that led us to the giant mistake of the Volstead Act. It is a Karen impulse that is destructive.
As someone whose consumption habits don’t qualify me as a “problem drinker”, it’s especially illuminating how difficult it is to make even small behavioral changes to my drinking. Like, I enjoy having 2-3 glasses of wine when dining out with friends, but if I commit to limiting myself to one glass beforehand, I almost always capitulate if my friends are drinking more liberally. It has made me consider whether total abstention would be easier than small rollbacks here or there.
I noticed that too. There were phases in my life when it was just really impossible to stop myself from drinking more once I'd started drinking. That's not so much a willpower problem as a property of alcohol - I think it's fairly rare that people can actually manage to stop themselves (particularly in social settings).
I think it us much easier to teach yourself how to limit your wine, beer or cocktail consumption than that bag of chips or box of cookies. Make sure you have water and only drink during meals. Alcohol beverages need to paired with food. Having food and water helps prevent drinking too much too fast. My wife goes high energy when we socialize and drinks too fast. I just put a class of ice water and a plate of appetizers in her hand between her wine or cocktail. She now does the same at home now.
Sorry Sam, but I can't think of a worse idea. Well, I can but you know what I mean. There are few greater pleasures in life than meeting up in your local over a few beers, or a couple of glasses of wine with a good meal. I'd agree the targetting of femail drinkers in the UK especially, driven by a highly motivated and well financed drinks lobby, hasn't been a good idea, whether obesity related or a broken liver.
As we get older we slow down. A thick head on a busy Monday morning? You learn how to avoid these things. If you can't, well seek help. Giving it all up is a bit extreme. Ex-drinkers are so boring...I'd rather take the mild hangover.
Tbh the exact thought I had before posting this was being worried that you, Ross-Rieder, or Frisch would see it. It is a major betrayal! - and I apologize to all of you, as well as to Manuel, the Mama Mexico manager.
I commend Mr. Kahn for recognizing his limitations and responding to them rationally. And as usual, I enjoy his writing.
As for me, I have three or four beers and maybe one glass of wine a month -- yes, a month. I rarely feel the urge for more, and don't really care to have less, since I like beer and wine in, to use that suddenly suspect word, moderation. To each his, her, its, or their own, I suppose.
Reduce consumption of alcohol? Seems like a good idea in general. However, why make this a semi-political / cultural valence? If you don't want to drink, don't drink. If you want to drink occasionally and socially, do so. I very seriously doubt there's any real risk unless you drink an excessive amount or have excessive occasions where you drink. Stopping entirely makes sense if you can't control it after you start. Stopping entirely when that's not an issue is cutting out one of life's enjoyable experiences. Again, fine if you choose to do so. Unnecessary to make that choice a political issue.
Am I the only one who thought it was weird that the author claimed not to be an alcoholic or a binge drinker, but then claimed to get back *hours of the day to be productive* when he stopped drinking? Maybe I simply don't have enough experience with alcohol, but that doesn't seem to follow. I've been drunk plenty of times in my life, but the only time it was anywhere near frequent was college, and even then, it was less than once per week. After I graduated, it was maybe a couple of times per year.
Hi Andrew,
What I meant is a little subtle. It wasn't that I would spend the evening binge drinking, but the whole mentality of office life and of Western social life in general is an on/off mindset. You're supposed to be 'on' during the day and then there's a moment when you switch 'off' in the evening and you become a person of leisure as opposed to a working person. The symbol for that is the first drink. It's considered very bad form - often a fireable offense - to drink during the day, but as soon as you leave the office and go to the bar with co-workers or have a glass of wine with dinner, you're in leisure mode. Two things happened in my life at around the same time - one was moving from office life into post-pandemic remote work life; and the other was quitting drinking - and, taken together, the two things really restructured my day. I stopped seeing myself in this sort of on/off way, and tried to restructure my day to doing what I loved with as much time as I could find - which was writing and reading, as opposed to switching to off-mode.
You're right of course that this isn't necessarily a political issue, except that politics is downstream of culture, and as we move out of the office 9-5 (and more seriously take in some of the deleterious effects of alcohol) we may find ourselves looking at drinking in a different way.
Cheers!
- Sam
Hello Sam,
Thank you for the response. I'm not entirely sure I follow how the on / off mindset relates specifically to alcohol, but your original points about regaining lost time certainly makes more sense when combined with other lifestyle changes; I can see how multiple factors would contribute.
I think that part of my confusion probably stems from my comparatively subdued social activities; dinners with friends were not terribly common (I ate with my girlfriend / wife, or alone, and didn't drink in either case), and when we did meet for dinner, alcohol was not a universal (though it was not uncommon).
Regards,
Andrew
I don't disagree, but can we pick a different month? If alcohol didn't exist, January would cause it to spontaneously burst into existence. And thank God. Let's go with May.
Lol
This might be a statement more about myself than people in general, but I feel like people enjoy either sipping or eating while socializing and feel awkward when they are not. It gives you something to do when it’s not your turn to speak. And it seems natural even when you are sitting by yourself in relaxatin.
I feel this is what smoking, drinkng coffee or tea, or drinking alcohol all have in common. It’s that they tap into the “social sipping instinct” (or social-relaxing sipping instinct)
In times when I’m not drinking -for example as a designated driver - I find I simply have to continually sip something, even if it means I’ll have downed 4 full glasses of plain water over a night.
Hi LV,
Totally! The main point with alcohol is that it really reduces social anxiety, and there's much to be said for that - but we all pay a real price for it (and that price is underestimated even for people who aren't actually alcoholics).
You sissy prohibition Karens high on cannabis eating your brains... sure, go ahead and make your choice to not drink alcohol BUT STOP YOUR FUCKING STUPID ACTIVISM AGAINST A LONG STANDING FOOD PRODUCT CONSUMED BY BILLIONS AND THAT PREDATES YOUR IDIOCY AND YOUR UNFORTUNATE BIRTH. FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT MOST OF YOU ARE FAT AND HAVE TERRIBLE EATING HABBITS.
Ah good point. Very sanely argued.
I am perfectly sane, but highly irritated. https://socialmisfit.substack.com/p/the-stupidity-of-the-sober-curious
Focus on the sugar and other crap in our food supply from big food. If you are really advocating for people to be more healthy, this isn’t a worthy target. Ethyl alcohol is in every fermented food because it occurs naturally and those countries that eat a lot of fermented food tend to have much longer life expectancy.
Based on your story, like my best friend that is 12 years sober, and me because of health issues, you should not drink alcohol. But to start a crusade against it to grab some higher moral status… well that is the same twitch that led us to the giant mistake of the Volstead Act. It is a Karen impulse that is destructive.
As someone whose consumption habits don’t qualify me as a “problem drinker”, it’s especially illuminating how difficult it is to make even small behavioral changes to my drinking. Like, I enjoy having 2-3 glasses of wine when dining out with friends, but if I commit to limiting myself to one glass beforehand, I almost always capitulate if my friends are drinking more liberally. It has made me consider whether total abstention would be easier than small rollbacks here or there.
I noticed that too. There were phases in my life when it was just really impossible to stop myself from drinking more once I'd started drinking. That's not so much a willpower problem as a property of alcohol - I think it's fairly rare that people can actually manage to stop themselves (particularly in social settings).
I think it us much easier to teach yourself how to limit your wine, beer or cocktail consumption than that bag of chips or box of cookies. Make sure you have water and only drink during meals. Alcohol beverages need to paired with food. Having food and water helps prevent drinking too much too fast. My wife goes high energy when we socialize and drinks too fast. I just put a class of ice water and a plate of appetizers in her hand between her wine or cocktail. She now does the same at home now.
One person's epiphany does not good social policy make.
I think all social policy starts from somebody or other's epiphany!
Sorry Sam, but I can't think of a worse idea. Well, I can but you know what I mean. There are few greater pleasures in life than meeting up in your local over a few beers, or a couple of glasses of wine with a good meal. I'd agree the targetting of femail drinkers in the UK especially, driven by a highly motivated and well financed drinks lobby, hasn't been a good idea, whether obesity related or a broken liver.
As we get older we slow down. A thick head on a busy Monday morning? You learn how to avoid these things. If you can't, well seek help. Giving it all up is a bit extreme. Ex-drinkers are so boring...I'd rather take the mild hangover.
Fair enough Anthony. Quico Toro will offer the opposing perspective in a few days.
As someone who drank with you in highschool this feels like a deep betrayal and maybe somewhat moralizing. Sending regards!
Tbh the exact thought I had before posting this was being worried that you, Ross-Rieder, or Frisch would see it. It is a major betrayal! - and I apologize to all of you, as well as to Manuel, the Mama Mexico manager.
Great to hear from you Matt! It's been a while!
I commend Mr. Kahn for recognizing his limitations and responding to them rationally. And as usual, I enjoy his writing.
As for me, I have three or four beers and maybe one glass of wine a month -- yes, a month. I rarely feel the urge for more, and don't really care to have less, since I like beer and wine in, to use that suddenly suspect word, moderation. To each his, her, its, or their own, I suppose.
Thank you Al. I commend your self-control. No temperance movement needed for you!