There's a presumption here that it's up to the government of the hosting country to integrate immigrants. This grates at me.
1. How would you even? Wouldn't this involve coercion?
2. I grew up with a left wing culture that told us that assimilation was wrong. How the Garcia girl's lost their accents was a book thrust upon us to show the evils of assimilation.
Assimilation into the dominant culture of a country is highly prosocial and represents a respect for the new place you call home. It should be the goal of asylum seekers. So much so that govts accepting immigrants should choose on this basis. If assimilation fails, maybe that's a reason to deport.
Why come to the place if you're just going to wish you were back home? It hurts both places. If asylum seekers do not wish to assimilate, then they should stay to build a better society in the culture they accept.
This article, like Starmer overstates the importance of the far right in the big picture. Working class white people have seen their income taxed to fund the immigrant demand for welfare, housing and employment. They have also seen the emergence of a two tier policing and justice system where white people are ignored or vilified for protests that are fawningly indulged by the police when it is Muslims on the streets.
So, again, the refusal to see the far left as co-responsible for the deteriorating social conditions sees Persuasion failing to strike balance and resort to anti working class argumentation. Very disappointing. After all, how could anybody fail to scutinize two tier Starmer?
There is much truth in what has been written here from an American perspective. This may well have been from British far-left social media- yet to be substantiated. It would seem that Social media in Britain, were quick to spread a rumour about the name of a supposed perpetrator of this horrendous act. But that does not give carte blanch to demand more censorship and laws against free speech on social network platforms- which no doubt will follow - nor extra harsh treatment for a "perceived" threat, termed "the far right."
The articles appearing in MSM in Britain, and echoed here, have spawned the misconception that the insinuation is that the majority, if not all of those involved in the rioting, were on account of “far right” thugs and undesirables and these unsubstantiated accusations are again copied here in this article.
However, the articles not appearing in the MSM in Britain, analyse this out busts of rioting as no doubt including a few miscreants holding far right-wing beliefs. What we’re witnessing here is a “class war”, fanned by identity politics of the left, and as per usual the Establishment don’t like the idea of the grubby working class having a voice and must therefore be “dealt with” by physical force, by smear campaigns, and ultimately imprisonment. But more to the point that these articles- not published in British MSM – describe these riots as not being on account of “far right” thugs and undesirables. Far from it.
Interesting how there’s a “Muslim Council of Great Britain” but nothing for ordinary indigenous people. According to ‘Social Mobility Barometer – GOV.UK’, “nearly half of all Brits (49%) consider themselves working class” most of which are white and indigenous Brits. Yes, there’s local councils and of course national parties, but nothing that truly represents The indigenous English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass). Their opponents now term them “the far right” a label being banded in the MSM, and by the ever-increasing distant from the populous of the ruling classes.
There is no “Indigenous English Council of Great Britain” for the sake of argument. Also intriguing how the Scots have the SNP and their desire for independence, which everyone see as legitimate and understandable. And yet as we have seen with Brexit the desire for the majority of the English – as shown in the referendum - to be independent from the EU, only draws the usual derisory tags and labels from those left of the political divide.
The English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass) now have increasingly dwindling representation. And what there is – The Reform Party, being the most obvious – is lambasted as a threat to the stability of the nation. The English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass) are becoming marginalised and discriminated against in nearly every facet of daily life, but there is no one there to look after their interests or defend their corner. Once again, this new Labour government – like their predecessors the Conservatives - has turned its back on The Indigenous English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass), a Labour Party that decades ago used to represent the same people it now truly despises. And yet The English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass) are told to not look back in anger and put up with it because the “elites” know what’s best.
No doubt yet to come will be In keeping with what those on the left of the political spectrum always do; use these incidences , to scream for “more censorship, more harsh punishments” on a perceived enemy – Nazi’s and the extreme right. Quote from this article ; “But any serious solution will need to accomplish two things: It needs to take the hardest possible approach against far-right extremism, with heavy penalties for rioters (in particular the ringleaders fomenting violence.)” This predisposes that what this author terms the “far right” actually were the only, or main cause of these riots, and only in need of blame.
So, it’s complicated, and MSM has again failed us hoi polloi to present a balanced account of not just what they want us hoi polloi to see on broadcasts and in NEWS papers of the MSM, and that is why we read “Persuasion” and other such excellent writers on Substack and other independent NEWS sources , from which these comments are taken. It is always good to get a balanced view. 😐
There is one word which explains the riots in the UK. That word is 'Rotherham'. The British establishment utterly failed to respond to what happened in Rotherham and is still failing.
A little side note: the 2022 Rwandan census did put the Muslim percentage at 2%, but the actual percentage is probably a lot larger than that (note that the previous census put it at 4.6%). The Muslim area in Kigali (Nyamirambo) is very large (and also one of the most interesting parts of the city to visi).
Islam gained popularity in Rwanda because it was the one denomination that took a categorical and resolute stand against killing during the genocide. Muslims also funded Kigali's nicest hospital.
History tells us that unemployed and underemployed young men are fertile ground for demagoguery and scapegoating. Talking about right-wing violence gives the impression that we understand and can fix the problem, but accomplishes very little. First, let us work towards improving our school systems so that they educate boys and men at least as well as they educate girls and women. Second, let us at acknowledge that there is not enough meaningful employment for young men and that in itself is a real grievance.
I'm looking at this from far away, so I don't know how representative are the images I see, but for the past months I've seen massive marches of Muslims cheering Hamas atrocities and calling for the death of Jews and the destruction of Israel. I've seen the British Police stand aside in the face of these crowds, who often were overtly committing crimes and I've seen people who were "visibly Jewish" ordered by the Police to stay away, even arrested.
Now, none of that legitimizes indiscriminate attacks on Muslims or other immigrants, but it does mean that Mr. Hallam's description of these communities as having "failed to integrate properly" is so disproportionate as to approach an out-and-out lie. And if he's going to suggest "heavy penalties for rioters", he'd do well to go back a few months.
If the rioters want to keep English blood pure and uncontaminated by them dirty foreigners, they're way too late. White English are descended from Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans...
Gimme a break. The riots have nothing to do with politics, or racism, or Islamaphobia--all these things are just excuses to do violence. Most people like excitement, and many enjoy violence. Young lower class males, whose only assets are muscle and guts, do violence. If not for some supposed political cause then then street crime. In the past warfare soaked up their energies and satisfied their desire for excitement and achievement: sacking cities, getting loot, raping, and pilaging. Now that option isn't readily available. So rioting in the street will do. Young lower class males don't have anything else--no brains, no skills, no future, no avenue for achievement other than violence, which uses the only assets these animals have: muscle and guts.
Another elephant in the room that no one seems to be willingly or able to see is the decades long softly, softly approach to extremist unionist and loyalist factions and gangs in Northern Ireland. These violent groupings who continue to terrorise their communities and whose unchecked criminality and corruption and connections to high ranking politicians have long been openly grooming their youth with the racist anti Islamic lies outlined above. The Mandelson peace process era decision to allow paramilitary criminals freedom and pardons in return for state sponsored political and community engagement has here led to the flourishing of new generations of thugs who have been educated, via an ill thought out ersatz imposition of a long discredited US imported multicultural ideology, within their still separate apartheid style education and sectarian siloes, to feel that their ‘identity’ as Protestant loyalists entitles them to transfer their hatred and rejection of all things ‘Irish’ to all things ‘Other’.
It is a politically engineered disaster which is complicated by the fact that so many of the original leaders in these gangs remain protected by the Byzantine British Intelligence network that ran them as ‘assets’ during British General Frank Kitson’s very dirty counterinsurgency project (1969-2007). This fact also might explain why both the Brexit campaign, with its strong extremist British DUP leadership and this campaign of orchestrated violence, are obviously highly organised by those with a military background and the tactics and content of the violence eerily echoes that still seen every summer on the streets of Northern Ireland.
"What’s more, right-wing catastrophism is hypocritical insofar as it has often been fuelled by the very same politicians who were in government until last month, and spectacularly failed to tackle most of these problems."
I'm curious as to what successfully "tackling [mass immigration and lack of assimilation] might look like. Blaming conservatives for not resolving the issue seems wholly insincere, as no party or regime has been able to do a damn thing about it. But please do enlighten us . . .
There's a presumption here that it's up to the government of the hosting country to integrate immigrants. This grates at me.
1. How would you even? Wouldn't this involve coercion?
2. I grew up with a left wing culture that told us that assimilation was wrong. How the Garcia girl's lost their accents was a book thrust upon us to show the evils of assimilation.
Assimilation into the dominant culture of a country is highly prosocial and represents a respect for the new place you call home. It should be the goal of asylum seekers. So much so that govts accepting immigrants should choose on this basis. If assimilation fails, maybe that's a reason to deport.
Why come to the place if you're just going to wish you were back home? It hurts both places. If asylum seekers do not wish to assimilate, then they should stay to build a better society in the culture they accept.
This article, like Starmer overstates the importance of the far right in the big picture. Working class white people have seen their income taxed to fund the immigrant demand for welfare, housing and employment. They have also seen the emergence of a two tier policing and justice system where white people are ignored or vilified for protests that are fawningly indulged by the police when it is Muslims on the streets.
So, again, the refusal to see the far left as co-responsible for the deteriorating social conditions sees Persuasion failing to strike balance and resort to anti working class argumentation. Very disappointing. After all, how could anybody fail to scutinize two tier Starmer?
There is much truth in what has been written here from an American perspective. This may well have been from British far-left social media- yet to be substantiated. It would seem that Social media in Britain, were quick to spread a rumour about the name of a supposed perpetrator of this horrendous act. But that does not give carte blanch to demand more censorship and laws against free speech on social network platforms- which no doubt will follow - nor extra harsh treatment for a "perceived" threat, termed "the far right."
The articles appearing in MSM in Britain, and echoed here, have spawned the misconception that the insinuation is that the majority, if not all of those involved in the rioting, were on account of “far right” thugs and undesirables and these unsubstantiated accusations are again copied here in this article.
However, the articles not appearing in the MSM in Britain, analyse this out busts of rioting as no doubt including a few miscreants holding far right-wing beliefs. What we’re witnessing here is a “class war”, fanned by identity politics of the left, and as per usual the Establishment don’t like the idea of the grubby working class having a voice and must therefore be “dealt with” by physical force, by smear campaigns, and ultimately imprisonment. But more to the point that these articles- not published in British MSM – describe these riots as not being on account of “far right” thugs and undesirables. Far from it.
Interesting how there’s a “Muslim Council of Great Britain” but nothing for ordinary indigenous people. According to ‘Social Mobility Barometer – GOV.UK’, “nearly half of all Brits (49%) consider themselves working class” most of which are white and indigenous Brits. Yes, there’s local councils and of course national parties, but nothing that truly represents The indigenous English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass). Their opponents now term them “the far right” a label being banded in the MSM, and by the ever-increasing distant from the populous of the ruling classes.
There is no “Indigenous English Council of Great Britain” for the sake of argument. Also intriguing how the Scots have the SNP and their desire for independence, which everyone see as legitimate and understandable. And yet as we have seen with Brexit the desire for the majority of the English – as shown in the referendum - to be independent from the EU, only draws the usual derisory tags and labels from those left of the political divide.
The English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass) now have increasingly dwindling representation. And what there is – The Reform Party, being the most obvious – is lambasted as a threat to the stability of the nation. The English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass) are becoming marginalised and discriminated against in nearly every facet of daily life, but there is no one there to look after their interests or defend their corner. Once again, this new Labour government – like their predecessors the Conservatives - has turned its back on The Indigenous English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass), a Labour Party that decades ago used to represent the same people it now truly despises. And yet The English, and in particular the English working class (and underclass) are told to not look back in anger and put up with it because the “elites” know what’s best.
No doubt yet to come will be In keeping with what those on the left of the political spectrum always do; use these incidences , to scream for “more censorship, more harsh punishments” on a perceived enemy – Nazi’s and the extreme right. Quote from this article ; “But any serious solution will need to accomplish two things: It needs to take the hardest possible approach against far-right extremism, with heavy penalties for rioters (in particular the ringleaders fomenting violence.)” This predisposes that what this author terms the “far right” actually were the only, or main cause of these riots, and only in need of blame.
So, it’s complicated, and MSM has again failed us hoi polloi to present a balanced account of not just what they want us hoi polloi to see on broadcasts and in NEWS papers of the MSM, and that is why we read “Persuasion” and other such excellent writers on Substack and other independent NEWS sources , from which these comments are taken. It is always good to get a balanced view. 😐
There is one word which explains the riots in the UK. That word is 'Rotherham'. The British establishment utterly failed to respond to what happened in Rotherham and is still failing.
A little side note: the 2022 Rwandan census did put the Muslim percentage at 2%, but the actual percentage is probably a lot larger than that (note that the previous census put it at 4.6%). The Muslim area in Kigali (Nyamirambo) is very large (and also one of the most interesting parts of the city to visi).
Islam gained popularity in Rwanda because it was the one denomination that took a categorical and resolute stand against killing during the genocide. Muslims also funded Kigali's nicest hospital.
History tells us that unemployed and underemployed young men are fertile ground for demagoguery and scapegoating. Talking about right-wing violence gives the impression that we understand and can fix the problem, but accomplishes very little. First, let us work towards improving our school systems so that they educate boys and men at least as well as they educate girls and women. Second, let us at acknowledge that there is not enough meaningful employment for young men and that in itself is a real grievance.
I'm looking at this from far away, so I don't know how representative are the images I see, but for the past months I've seen massive marches of Muslims cheering Hamas atrocities and calling for the death of Jews and the destruction of Israel. I've seen the British Police stand aside in the face of these crowds, who often were overtly committing crimes and I've seen people who were "visibly Jewish" ordered by the Police to stay away, even arrested.
Now, none of that legitimizes indiscriminate attacks on Muslims or other immigrants, but it does mean that Mr. Hallam's description of these communities as having "failed to integrate properly" is so disproportionate as to approach an out-and-out lie. And if he's going to suggest "heavy penalties for rioters", he'd do well to go back a few months.
If the rioters want to keep English blood pure and uncontaminated by them dirty foreigners, they're way too late. White English are descended from Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans...
Gimme a break. The riots have nothing to do with politics, or racism, or Islamaphobia--all these things are just excuses to do violence. Most people like excitement, and many enjoy violence. Young lower class males, whose only assets are muscle and guts, do violence. If not for some supposed political cause then then street crime. In the past warfare soaked up their energies and satisfied their desire for excitement and achievement: sacking cities, getting loot, raping, and pilaging. Now that option isn't readily available. So rioting in the street will do. Young lower class males don't have anything else--no brains, no skills, no future, no avenue for achievement other than violence, which uses the only assets these animals have: muscle and guts.
Another elephant in the room that no one seems to be willingly or able to see is the decades long softly, softly approach to extremist unionist and loyalist factions and gangs in Northern Ireland. These violent groupings who continue to terrorise their communities and whose unchecked criminality and corruption and connections to high ranking politicians have long been openly grooming their youth with the racist anti Islamic lies outlined above. The Mandelson peace process era decision to allow paramilitary criminals freedom and pardons in return for state sponsored political and community engagement has here led to the flourishing of new generations of thugs who have been educated, via an ill thought out ersatz imposition of a long discredited US imported multicultural ideology, within their still separate apartheid style education and sectarian siloes, to feel that their ‘identity’ as Protestant loyalists entitles them to transfer their hatred and rejection of all things ‘Irish’ to all things ‘Other’.
It is a politically engineered disaster which is complicated by the fact that so many of the original leaders in these gangs remain protected by the Byzantine British Intelligence network that ran them as ‘assets’ during British General Frank Kitson’s very dirty counterinsurgency project (1969-2007). This fact also might explain why both the Brexit campaign, with its strong extremist British DUP leadership and this campaign of orchestrated violence, are obviously highly organised by those with a military background and the tactics and content of the violence eerily echoes that still seen every summer on the streets of Northern Ireland.
"What’s more, right-wing catastrophism is hypocritical insofar as it has often been fuelled by the very same politicians who were in government until last month, and spectacularly failed to tackle most of these problems."
I'm curious as to what successfully "tackling [mass immigration and lack of assimilation] might look like. Blaming conservatives for not resolving the issue seems wholly insincere, as no party or regime has been able to do a damn thing about it. But please do enlighten us . . .