Iran is the primary sponsor of terrorism. The Islamic culture of death fanatic extremists in control are completely transparent in their interest to destroy Israel and Western civilization. This is different than say North Korea with leaders that at least demonstrate survival self interest.
They cannot acquire nuclear ballistic weapons. Full stop.
Beyond that there are legit arguments against global order meddling in other foreign political and conflict outcomes.
Sam, go back and study your history. The founding ideology of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), established after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, explicitly positions the elimination of Israel as a core objective—both ideologically and strategically.
The official statements of the IRG and state-sponsored publications over the decades have made this goal unmistakably clear. The eradication of Israel has been stated as religious duty and a geopolitical imperative. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei has repeatedly referred to Israel as a “cancerous tumor” that must be removed, and the IRG has operationalized this stance by supporting proxy groups like Hezbollah and Hamas with funding, training, and weapons.
The idea that you can get this cancer within Islam to the camp fire to sing kumbaya is the ignorant basis of the US policy we have imposed on Israel for decades. Israel finally understands this and is acting accordingly.
Barring some extremely fringe chance, leadership and their stated ideology of eliminating Israel is not going to end with this campaign. Just because an actor is genuinely bad doesn't mean punching them is a good idea for your own future. That doesn't mean choosing appeasement, but it does mean being calculating and holding your fire when it's ineffective or counterproductive. I'm not saying that is the case here, but it has to be part of the calculation, and I'm sure Israel has made it. This certainly was one of the best times in recent history to make an attack like this, with Iran's proxies effectively neutered, and their own national defense against air attack demonstrated to be nearly ineffectual.
However, when Israel's military might and economic success relies on good relations with the West, that's just as important a factor in choosing their actions wisely. I'm sure Israel knows this, and has determined that the risk to eroding support from their allies, but it's still a risk.
There is just an overall growing dissatisfaction with systems and orders that have generally worked for decades, but have enough blemishes it is easy for someone throwing spitballs to point them out and declare the entire system is "broken."
In the West (and especially America), we've become so accustomed to so many of the benefits of our hard-won modern life, that I think a lot of people are taking them for granted and acting in ways that undermine the foundations of those benefits without realizing it. "Victims of our own success" in many ways. From the eradication of so many childhood diseases via modern vaccines to or material wealth and prosperity, to the global power.
This post ignores the havoc wreaked on the liberal world order by the mass migration/open borders globalist intifada which bestowed on us the illiberal world order. It is that latter world order that is being attacked in populist rebellions worldwide.
This strikes me as not relevant. Can you connect the dots more? I am not sure how, if I hrant your premise, mass migration/open borders would lead to… justification of military action on nations that are not sending migrants to yours.
I agree with your overall assessment that nation states and world with liberal democracies supporting that is a great place. Unfortunately, that’s not the world we are in. Russias invasions of Ukraine over the past decade show some nation states do no believe in that world order as much as most people might prefer it.
As to Israel, they have had to fight for their existence since it became a nation. Yes they have made peace with neighbors and the Abraham accords have the potential to change the way the Middle East has operated. Iran, like Russia, doesn’t believe in nation states. It has used its proxies to take over Lebanon, Syria and Yemen. It has called for the end of Israel and it has matched its words by having those proxies attach Israel on and off for 20 years. Iran had no intention of stopping. How would you suggest any country live with that threat?
I don't think the author disagrees with that statement, but rather, that Israel's success and stability (amongst regional adversaries) has relied on the support of the global liberal order. They would not be able to conduct such successful military campaigns without the financial and technological support of the US arms industry. I don't think we're there yet, but the cracks in US support do exist, and I think it's kind of a toss-up on whether the progressive "Free Palestine" camp or the neo-isolationists of the MAGA right could get there first.
I hope that you are wrong about the warring states part. I think a lot of this instability is from Putin and his leadership who are proiritizing armed conflict over peace and diplomacy. I hope Israel is not going the same path but who knows? Restacking this!
I understand your text in general, but I have to disagree with it in general. One reason is that there is no liberal international order as it existed from 1990 to 2016. Trump was already dismantling the order during the 2016-2020 mandate.
Another reason is that a new international order cannot solve many of the problems and challenges. Because you want interNATIONAL and thereby intergovernmental order, while the world needs a global order, including through global democracy, so we can solve problems as citizens and not only as governments
Israel enjoyed its period of productive diplomatic relations with Egypt and some of the Sunni Arab state after comprehensively defeating Egyptian armed forces 3 times, the second (Six Day War) largely due to pre-emptive air strikes as Egypt & its allies were tightening the noose on Israel preparatory to a combined assault.
The rest of us have been in a period of relative international order after the destruction of the German and Japanese states as constituted prior to 1935. Your analysis seems very partial and historically naive.
Let us not kid ourselves. European and American support of the Ukraine has less to do with protecting the concept of the nation state than preventing the fight with Putin's Russia from moving farther West.
As far as Israel's fight with Iran, nobody who has thought about it in the Moslem and Christian worlds wants to see the expansion of the Iranian caliphate. However, there is irony in that the one Jewish state has taken on the job of countering Iranian expansion.
I will point out another contradiction. Russia attacked Ukraine because they said it was an existential threat to their security. It was unacceptable to Russia for Ukraine to be a member of NATO ( and thus have missiles and bases pointed at Russia on their soil). The persecution of Russian speakers in the Donbass was another issue.
The former CIA director Bill Burns had said some years ago, that Ukraine in NATO was the reddest of red lines for Russia and should never happen or there would be war. ( See Jeffrey Sachs many videos on the subject). YET when Russia attacked Ukraine, the USA under dementia patient Joe Biden responded by arming and supporting Ukraine, and all of Europe went along.
NOW, when Israel attacks Iran, under similar pretext ( that its an existential threat to their nation) everyone supports the aggressor, Israel. So maybe we should say that Joe Biden, US democrats and US neocons and stupid Europeans are also responsible for beginning this age of war?
Iran is the primary sponsor of terrorism. The Islamic culture of death fanatic extremists in control are completely transparent in their interest to destroy Israel and Western civilization. This is different than say North Korea with leaders that at least demonstrate survival self interest.
They cannot acquire nuclear ballistic weapons. Full stop.
Beyond that there are legit arguments against global order meddling in other foreign political and conflict outcomes.
Don't worry because there is no "Western Civilisation". There is just a global human civilisation and many conflicts within it
Sam, go back and study your history. The founding ideology of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), established after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, explicitly positions the elimination of Israel as a core objective—both ideologically and strategically.
The official statements of the IRG and state-sponsored publications over the decades have made this goal unmistakably clear. The eradication of Israel has been stated as religious duty and a geopolitical imperative. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei has repeatedly referred to Israel as a “cancerous tumor” that must be removed, and the IRG has operationalized this stance by supporting proxy groups like Hezbollah and Hamas with funding, training, and weapons.
The idea that you can get this cancer within Islam to the camp fire to sing kumbaya is the ignorant basis of the US policy we have imposed on Israel for decades. Israel finally understands this and is acting accordingly.
Barring some extremely fringe chance, leadership and their stated ideology of eliminating Israel is not going to end with this campaign. Just because an actor is genuinely bad doesn't mean punching them is a good idea for your own future. That doesn't mean choosing appeasement, but it does mean being calculating and holding your fire when it's ineffective or counterproductive. I'm not saying that is the case here, but it has to be part of the calculation, and I'm sure Israel has made it. This certainly was one of the best times in recent history to make an attack like this, with Iran's proxies effectively neutered, and their own national defense against air attack demonstrated to be nearly ineffectual.
However, when Israel's military might and economic success relies on good relations with the West, that's just as important a factor in choosing their actions wisely. I'm sure Israel knows this, and has determined that the risk to eroding support from their allies, but it's still a risk.
There is just an overall growing dissatisfaction with systems and orders that have generally worked for decades, but have enough blemishes it is easy for someone throwing spitballs to point them out and declare the entire system is "broken."
In the West (and especially America), we've become so accustomed to so many of the benefits of our hard-won modern life, that I think a lot of people are taking them for granted and acting in ways that undermine the foundations of those benefits without realizing it. "Victims of our own success" in many ways. From the eradication of so many childhood diseases via modern vaccines to or material wealth and prosperity, to the global power.
BTW, awesome screenname!
This post ignores the havoc wreaked on the liberal world order by the mass migration/open borders globalist intifada which bestowed on us the illiberal world order. It is that latter world order that is being attacked in populist rebellions worldwide.
This strikes me as not relevant. Can you connect the dots more? I am not sure how, if I hrant your premise, mass migration/open borders would lead to… justification of military action on nations that are not sending migrants to yours.
I agree with your overall assessment that nation states and world with liberal democracies supporting that is a great place. Unfortunately, that’s not the world we are in. Russias invasions of Ukraine over the past decade show some nation states do no believe in that world order as much as most people might prefer it.
As to Israel, they have had to fight for their existence since it became a nation. Yes they have made peace with neighbors and the Abraham accords have the potential to change the way the Middle East has operated. Iran, like Russia, doesn’t believe in nation states. It has used its proxies to take over Lebanon, Syria and Yemen. It has called for the end of Israel and it has matched its words by having those proxies attach Israel on and off for 20 years. Iran had no intention of stopping. How would you suggest any country live with that threat?
I don't think the author disagrees with that statement, but rather, that Israel's success and stability (amongst regional adversaries) has relied on the support of the global liberal order. They would not be able to conduct such successful military campaigns without the financial and technological support of the US arms industry. I don't think we're there yet, but the cracks in US support do exist, and I think it's kind of a toss-up on whether the progressive "Free Palestine" camp or the neo-isolationists of the MAGA right could get there first.
Totally ignored that Iran has never respected Israel’s sovereignty via its proxies. Why would you ignore that?
I hope that you are wrong about the warring states part. I think a lot of this instability is from Putin and his leadership who are proiritizing armed conflict over peace and diplomacy. I hope Israel is not going the same path but who knows? Restacking this!
I understand your text in general, but I have to disagree with it in general. One reason is that there is no liberal international order as it existed from 1990 to 2016. Trump was already dismantling the order during the 2016-2020 mandate.
Another reason is that a new international order cannot solve many of the problems and challenges. Because you want interNATIONAL and thereby intergovernmental order, while the world needs a global order, including through global democracy, so we can solve problems as citizens and not only as governments
https://www.democracywithoutborders.org/
Israel enjoyed its period of productive diplomatic relations with Egypt and some of the Sunni Arab state after comprehensively defeating Egyptian armed forces 3 times, the second (Six Day War) largely due to pre-emptive air strikes as Egypt & its allies were tightening the noose on Israel preparatory to a combined assault.
The rest of us have been in a period of relative international order after the destruction of the German and Japanese states as constituted prior to 1935. Your analysis seems very partial and historically naive.
Let us not kid ourselves. European and American support of the Ukraine has less to do with protecting the concept of the nation state than preventing the fight with Putin's Russia from moving farther West.
As far as Israel's fight with Iran, nobody who has thought about it in the Moslem and Christian worlds wants to see the expansion of the Iranian caliphate. However, there is irony in that the one Jewish state has taken on the job of countering Iranian expansion.
I will point out another contradiction. Russia attacked Ukraine because they said it was an existential threat to their security. It was unacceptable to Russia for Ukraine to be a member of NATO ( and thus have missiles and bases pointed at Russia on their soil). The persecution of Russian speakers in the Donbass was another issue.
The former CIA director Bill Burns had said some years ago, that Ukraine in NATO was the reddest of red lines for Russia and should never happen or there would be war. ( See Jeffrey Sachs many videos on the subject). YET when Russia attacked Ukraine, the USA under dementia patient Joe Biden responded by arming and supporting Ukraine, and all of Europe went along.
NOW, when Israel attacks Iran, under similar pretext ( that its an existential threat to their nation) everyone supports the aggressor, Israel. So maybe we should say that Joe Biden, US democrats and US neocons and stupid Europeans are also responsible for beginning this age of war?