Irshad Manji has a lot of experience trying to persuade those who really don’t want to be persuaded.

Early in her career, Irshad wrote two influential books that advocated for a reformed Islam. In conversations with religious conservatives around the world, she found that a combative style did not help her win adherents for her cause; instead, she started to acknowledge their views—before proudly arguing for her own. Now, Irshad runs the Moral Courage project which uses a novel pedagogical approach to make progress on contested issues like racism without shaming its participants.

On the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk talks to Irshad about why we should not judge those who disagree with us and how we can hope to persuade them of our own positions.

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