I am about halfway through this podcast and just wanted to comment how much I'm enjoying it. I'm finding the tips about showing respect to people who disagree with you so helpful. Especially loved the story about your Black student and her Confederate flag flying friend.
I have a lot of Trump supporting family members who are always trying to bait me into political debates, which tend to get very heated very quickly. It's exhausting and so frustrating. After each conversation I'm beating myself up over things I should have said...you're absolutely right that it's hard to think clearly and rationally when the flight or fight part of the brain takes over. The tips to remember to breathe during these convos and to ask lots of questions from a point of trying to understand (rather than debate) are so helpful. I go into every one of these discussions thinking I need to "win," and always come out feeling angry and frustrated, as do my family members. I'm so glad I subscribed to Persuasion - been looking for a website like this for ages.
Thank you, thank you for having Irshad on your podcast. To me, she has been one of the best "finds" on this journey to figure out a way for polarized individuals to engage in difficult conversations. Removing the zero sum game aspect of the whole interaction is key. To do that you have to be intellectually and emotionally curious but if the "rules" are predetermined against that curiosity (debate, orthodoxy, etc.), to what I am seeing, you are only going to get more of the same. Irshad gives us hope of the "and" - we do not lose our identity when we engage in tough conversation and we actually see the "other" as a human first.
Regardless - to Yascha's point about how we inject these lessons into Persuasion, my suggestion would be to have Irshad (or someone similar) model this approach with individuals who have VERY devote perspectives on given issues. The point would not be to tell folks they are wrong but to better understand how they came to these perspectives, to better understand their experience and learn about the why. It will be "dangerous" and "provocative" but we need to see it modeled. This is a very distinct skill that we all would do better to learn more about which makes us more effective in understanding our world and, yes, gives us a possible route to persuade.
Hi Mike, I look forward to speaking with you. Meanwhile, just know that I'll be bringing an idea to Yascha in the spirit of your suggestion: to have someone frequently and consistently model this approach with individuals who've got VERY devoted perspectives on given issues. I hope that Yascha goes for it. Stay tuned!
Hi there John! First off, I'd love to read your kid's thesis once it's handed in. As you can tell, I believe in solutions and would be keen to see what your high school senior has to say. Second, although there's no transcript of the interview (as far as I'm aware), most of the ideas discussed come directly from my latest book, Don't Label Me: How to Do Diversity Without Inflaming the Culture Wars. It's available in most libraries. Failing that, there's always the neighborhood bookstore. If you're purchasing, be sure to get the paperback edition, which is cheaper than hardback. Check out any of these retailers at the top of this page: https://irshadmanji.com/dont-label-me-learn/. Don't forget to email me the finished thesis: team@moralcourage.com. Thanks.
Will do! Many thanks. She goes to a Classical Christian school and we’re both very encouraged to find common ground among many different and diverse groups to confront and engage the cancel culture.
Outstanding podcast, I took notes, and I hope it comes up for discussion during our happy hour. She makes it sound easy but in reality it's not. IE, not everyone is willing to play by her rules. But great ideas!
Thank you, Sarah. You're spot-on: This stuff is hard. It takes emotional discipline, patience, and a sincere curiosity about one's "Other." You're also right that not everybody will play by the rules, as our hyper-ugly national politics make clear day in and day out. But putting professional politicians aside, most people in my experience come from a place of good faith when they trust that the other person does, too. Building trust is an under-appreciated skill, but often the key to persuading.
Listening to this interview, I was reminded of Daryl Davis, a Black musician who's befriended over 200 Klan members who since left the Klan as a result. I especially wonder what their first conversations were like. I can't help thinking that, if they could see enough humanity in each other to have that first conversation, the rest of us should be able to find a way, too. Or at least to want to. I'm glad people like Manji are actually trying to do that concretely in the world.
Thanks a bunch for your support, MG. Daryl Davis is, in my view, superhuman. Very few us will ever be as dedicated to glimpsing the Other's humanity as he is. So instead of relying on a smattering of individuals to do the heavy lift of repairing humanity, let's build a global network of doers (not just dreamers!) who'll apply these techniques to resolving conflicts in their own communities -- and who'll mentor younger people in these techniques. As an educator, that's what I'm focused on now. In fact, I've been producing an online course for teachers. It should be ready for release by the end of this year. Cheers.
I am about halfway through this podcast and just wanted to comment how much I'm enjoying it. I'm finding the tips about showing respect to people who disagree with you so helpful. Especially loved the story about your Black student and her Confederate flag flying friend.
I have a lot of Trump supporting family members who are always trying to bait me into political debates, which tend to get very heated very quickly. It's exhausting and so frustrating. After each conversation I'm beating myself up over things I should have said...you're absolutely right that it's hard to think clearly and rationally when the flight or fight part of the brain takes over. The tips to remember to breathe during these convos and to ask lots of questions from a point of trying to understand (rather than debate) are so helpful. I go into every one of these discussions thinking I need to "win," and always come out feeling angry and frustrated, as do my family members. I'm so glad I subscribed to Persuasion - been looking for a website like this for ages.
Thank you, thank you for having Irshad on your podcast. To me, she has been one of the best "finds" on this journey to figure out a way for polarized individuals to engage in difficult conversations. Removing the zero sum game aspect of the whole interaction is key. To do that you have to be intellectually and emotionally curious but if the "rules" are predetermined against that curiosity (debate, orthodoxy, etc.), to what I am seeing, you are only going to get more of the same. Irshad gives us hope of the "and" - we do not lose our identity when we engage in tough conversation and we actually see the "other" as a human first.
Regardless - to Yascha's point about how we inject these lessons into Persuasion, my suggestion would be to have Irshad (or someone similar) model this approach with individuals who have VERY devote perspectives on given issues. The point would not be to tell folks they are wrong but to better understand how they came to these perspectives, to better understand their experience and learn about the why. It will be "dangerous" and "provocative" but we need to see it modeled. This is a very distinct skill that we all would do better to learn more about which makes us more effective in understanding our world and, yes, gives us a possible route to persuade.
Hi Mike, I look forward to speaking with you. Meanwhile, just know that I'll be bringing an idea to Yascha in the spirit of your suggestion: to have someone frequently and consistently model this approach with individuals who've got VERY devoted perspectives on given issues. I hope that Yascha goes for it. Stay tuned!
My high school senior's thesis topic is on confronting the cancel culture. Is there a transcript for this podcast available anywhere? Thanks!
Hi there John! First off, I'd love to read your kid's thesis once it's handed in. As you can tell, I believe in solutions and would be keen to see what your high school senior has to say. Second, although there's no transcript of the interview (as far as I'm aware), most of the ideas discussed come directly from my latest book, Don't Label Me: How to Do Diversity Without Inflaming the Culture Wars. It's available in most libraries. Failing that, there's always the neighborhood bookstore. If you're purchasing, be sure to get the paperback edition, which is cheaper than hardback. Check out any of these retailers at the top of this page: https://irshadmanji.com/dont-label-me-learn/. Don't forget to email me the finished thesis: team@moralcourage.com. Thanks.
Will do! Many thanks. She goes to a Classical Christian school and we’re both very encouraged to find common ground among many different and diverse groups to confront and engage the cancel culture.
Outstanding podcast, I took notes, and I hope it comes up for discussion during our happy hour. She makes it sound easy but in reality it's not. IE, not everyone is willing to play by her rules. But great ideas!
Thank you, Sarah. You're spot-on: This stuff is hard. It takes emotional discipline, patience, and a sincere curiosity about one's "Other." You're also right that not everybody will play by the rules, as our hyper-ugly national politics make clear day in and day out. But putting professional politicians aside, most people in my experience come from a place of good faith when they trust that the other person does, too. Building trust is an under-appreciated skill, but often the key to persuading.
Listening to this interview, I was reminded of Daryl Davis, a Black musician who's befriended over 200 Klan members who since left the Klan as a result. I especially wonder what their first conversations were like. I can't help thinking that, if they could see enough humanity in each other to have that first conversation, the rest of us should be able to find a way, too. Or at least to want to. I'm glad people like Manji are actually trying to do that concretely in the world.
Thanks a bunch for your support, MG. Daryl Davis is, in my view, superhuman. Very few us will ever be as dedicated to glimpsing the Other's humanity as he is. So instead of relying on a smattering of individuals to do the heavy lift of repairing humanity, let's build a global network of doers (not just dreamers!) who'll apply these techniques to resolving conflicts in their own communities -- and who'll mentor younger people in these techniques. As an educator, that's what I'm focused on now. In fact, I've been producing an online course for teachers. It should be ready for release by the end of this year. Cheers.
Thank you, Betty. Was there any particular point or insight that resonated the most with you?