I really enjoyed this insightful conversation. I also liked reading Mr. Coleman's book and both agree with. him and disagree in some ways. One thing that comes up for me is the way he uses the term "neoracism ". Many of the things he criticizes are things I see as misguided attempts to deal with what is commonly called unconscious bias. I personally think it is a mistake for people to label someone who treats another person differently due to an aspect of unconscious bias as "racist". I think it is too contaminated by the common understanding of the racist as a violent KKK member and that makes it harder to work with people on what is a human tendency that we call unconscious bias. I worry that labeling what Mr. Coleman critiques as "neoracism " falls into a similar trap, and that to some extent is makes the conversation more difficult in a way that is unnecessary.
The median black family has 1/8 the wealth of the median white family. But conservatives seem to be trying to convince themselves that this had nothing to do with racism--that it's really the fault of black people and their cultures.
Most of this disparity is reflective of the wealth that people have in their homes. I can point to any number of racist policies (redlining, racist bankers giving black people substandard loans, putting obnoxious facilities like garbage incinerators in black neighborhoods, running highways through black neighborhoods, poorly funded schools, white flight). And no, raising the point of recent black immigrants doing well does not change this fact. Recent immigrants do not share this history, and they are probably coming from the wealthier segments of their societies. It is deeply misleading to group them together to prove that racism is a myth in America.
Would Mr. Hughes deny that this massive wealth disparity in America is the result of racism?
Also, I'm so glad that he brought up the hair and the issue of microaggressions. Conservatives love to mock the idea of microaggressions, but they are real and they are hurtful. I learned about this in a DEI course at work, btw. The whole point is that they might seem like nothing to white people, and they aren't intending to be evil or mean, but they are annoying. Ask black women or asian women feel about a white person calling them “exotic looking”. White people ought to make a point of learning when their behavior is annoying to members of minorities.
Color blindness is indeed a nice idea, but it is being used by too many people to deny the effects of racism that are still with us. When I look at schools today, they are so mixed that I'm sure we'll get there some day. But we are NOT there yet. Let's not make the mistake of wishing that reality is better than it is.
I also believe that DeAngelo has a point about white fragility. White people really hate to be asked to consider that they might have some unconscious racial biases. I read that book. It made me think much more deeply about the ways racism plays out and how I might be unwittingly participating in it. I'm grateful for that insight.
I'm all for helping poor people of all races. I just wish Republicans would get on board.
I really enjoyed this insightful conversation. I also liked reading Mr. Coleman's book and both agree with. him and disagree in some ways. One thing that comes up for me is the way he uses the term "neoracism ". Many of the things he criticizes are things I see as misguided attempts to deal with what is commonly called unconscious bias. I personally think it is a mistake for people to label someone who treats another person differently due to an aspect of unconscious bias as "racist". I think it is too contaminated by the common understanding of the racist as a violent KKK member and that makes it harder to work with people on what is a human tendency that we call unconscious bias. I worry that labeling what Mr. Coleman critiques as "neoracism " falls into a similar trap, and that to some extent is makes the conversation more difficult in a way that is unnecessary.
Great interview. Mr. Hughes, I think, sees things clearly.
Hughes and Mounk make an important point: there are negatives consequences when racism is exaggerated; we need to accurately perceive the world.
I have taken this as a point of departure for my March 19 Substack column on “Exaggerating Racism.”
https://charlesmckelvey.substack.com/p/exaggerating-racism
The disparity myth?
The median black family has 1/8 the wealth of the median white family. But conservatives seem to be trying to convince themselves that this had nothing to do with racism--that it's really the fault of black people and their cultures.
Most of this disparity is reflective of the wealth that people have in their homes. I can point to any number of racist policies (redlining, racist bankers giving black people substandard loans, putting obnoxious facilities like garbage incinerators in black neighborhoods, running highways through black neighborhoods, poorly funded schools, white flight). And no, raising the point of recent black immigrants doing well does not change this fact. Recent immigrants do not share this history, and they are probably coming from the wealthier segments of their societies. It is deeply misleading to group them together to prove that racism is a myth in America.
Would Mr. Hughes deny that this massive wealth disparity in America is the result of racism?
Also, I'm so glad that he brought up the hair and the issue of microaggressions. Conservatives love to mock the idea of microaggressions, but they are real and they are hurtful. I learned about this in a DEI course at work, btw. The whole point is that they might seem like nothing to white people, and they aren't intending to be evil or mean, but they are annoying. Ask black women or asian women feel about a white person calling them “exotic looking”. White people ought to make a point of learning when their behavior is annoying to members of minorities.
Color blindness is indeed a nice idea, but it is being used by too many people to deny the effects of racism that are still with us. When I look at schools today, they are so mixed that I'm sure we'll get there some day. But we are NOT there yet. Let's not make the mistake of wishing that reality is better than it is.
I also believe that DeAngelo has a point about white fragility. White people really hate to be asked to consider that they might have some unconscious racial biases. I read that book. It made me think much more deeply about the ways racism plays out and how I might be unwittingly participating in it. I'm grateful for that insight.
I'm all for helping poor people of all races. I just wish Republicans would get on board.