"Here’s the bad news: There are women out there who find it so burdensome to say no to a man who doesn’t interest them that they consider any overture, no matter the context, content, or intent, to be a form of sexual harassment.
The good news is, these women are silly and very much in the minority."
This made me laugh out loud. I honestly almost always felt flattered by male attention when I was younger. I generally didn't find it threatening and never had a problem politely saying "no."
Honestly, I think it goes all the way back to the playground. When I was growing up in the feral 80s at the tail end of Generation X, the playground and the neighborhood streets was a jungle. We were given a lot of space to regulate each other, which we did - sometimes with fists and sticks.
If a girl gave a boy a good shove for being annoying - and it was more openly acknowledged back then that boys could be really annoying - adults generally shrugged it off, or even told us it was good to stick up for ourselves.
(And I know its really, really taboo now to say "boys will be boys". But when I think back to my own childhood, that phrase was actually used more often to VALIDATE my experiences and my right to stick up for myself as a girl. It was not "boys will be boys, and as a girl you therefore you must tolerate them"; it was rather "boys will be boys, and as a girl you therefore have a right to tell them to shove off by any means necessary." Your personal mileage may vary.)
Now I look at my daughters' experience in school and it is all "Be Kind-ness" and "Inclusivity". Kids' play relationships are a lot more micromanaged by the adults.
The result of this hyper-kindness - I think - is that girls don't get the skills and confidence they need to firmly say "no." Instead they are subtly taught that you must always be "inclusive" and "kind" even at risk to yourself. Girls are taught that safety comes from outside, from parents and administrators and official regulations, rather than from their own self-efficacy. And too much self-efficacy risks being "unkind" or not sufficiently "inclusive".
There is nothing wrong with teaching kids to be kind, but it just seems like there is something really off and contradictory in our culture when it comes to women and girls right now. It's hard to put my finger on. It concerns me as a "Girl Mom."
I figure it must be helicopter parenting. I'm a Gen Xer myself (mid-range) and that's the biggest difference I see between our generation and the ones that followed. I like your use of the term "feral", because it really does feel that way compared to now. Rather than having a controlled schedule of play dates and extracurriculars, we were largely left to manage our own social lives among the local youth. We went out for long periods of unaccountability (I thought my Mom was overbearing and controlling for wanting me to tell her where I was going to be), with a wide physical range enabled by our bicycles that we rode without helmets or kneepads, often getting called to dinner by the far off sound of our mothers' voices, and staying out past dark in the summertime playing various street games. And when we got in trouble in school, we did everything we could to keep our parents from finding out, because they sure weren't going to take our side or become our advocates. Needless to say, things have changed.
You see this now in how modern feminism has taken a decided turn away from themes of personal agency and autonomy when it comes to dating and sex. Even Baby Boomers, who mostly grew up in a world where young female adulthood was still generally thought of as a necessary but perilous process of navigating a world full of predatory males to find one trustworthy and responsible enough to provide a blissfully secure existence of kept womanhood, were taught how fend off overly aggressive males and assert themselves when their "virtue" was on the line. And of course, our generation almost completely dispensed with these patrician norms as women happily took control of their own sex lives like entrepreneurs coming to the "New World".
Fast forward to today, when we have managed to convince ourselves that American college campuses are more dangerous places for women than the Republic of the Congo, and that it is somehow normal female biology to literally enter a state of semi-catatonia in the face of overt sexual advances (which, spoiler alert, is based on highly dubious "research" by a single psychologist). We have somehow managed to unravel the female empowerment that our generation so took to heart and replace it with a fear-based sense of helplessness that, we're straightfacedly told, constitutes social progress. It's hard not to think that "safe space" parenting practices had something to do with this.
I also feel like women of our generation were also allowed to have a real voice, freely speak our minds, and advocate for ourselves.
Now, young women who call themselves "feminists," particularly young white women, seem to engage increasingly in rituals of self-abnegation by which they denounce their privilege relative to more intersectionally important identities in the name of "Kindness".
I honestly find it really sick and manipulative.
If I ever see one of my daughters apologizing for her cishet white privileged existence on social media I will lose my everliving sh*t.
I feel you should write a whole article about these ideas. It's interesting the shift in parental control over time (what effects it might have). It's interesting how an inclusive doctrine could make individuals more reliant on authority. A deep dive on "hyper-kindness" could be really interesting even if ultimately there are no "right" or "wrong" answers to these ideas.
On the waitress (or waiter) question, there is also the idea that context is important. Is this the first time you are in a restaurant/bar, or are you just passing through town? Then an approach is very likely inappropriate. Have you built a little bit of a commercial relationship by eating/drinking in the same spot or a while? Then there is a better basis for considering whether an overture for a personal relationship is a good idea.
Really enjoyed the Q+A format of this! I also like how you offered a concrete example of how to be non-creepy since “creepy” is in the eye of the beholder. It’s definitely true that some guys are simply socially awkward and are trying their best.
The thing that really bums me out is how we, as a society, continue to push for safety over freedom. True, less people will get hurt. But also, will you feel a true connection to the 100th person who leaves a phone number napkin with a bunch of legalese and caveats scribbled on the back?
I understand these new unwritten rules exist because of the outliers. And I understand the desire for safety (both physical and psychological). But I do feel like a little more color drains from this world with every additional rule we write.
As a library director I have very much had to coach staff on how it is OK to reject unwanted attention, but also how to recognize if it is someone hitting on them or someone who is just equally awkward (he's not hitting on you, he asked me about my wedding ring too and, while he may be bisexual, it's much more likely he's not good at social situations.)
When I was a younger man I also had many conversations with friends about how you should discount any "vibes" coming from someone who is paid to be nice to you.
As an ugly man, I also understand that there must be a burden of beauty, but the objective benefits seem to outweigh the negatives.
"Here’s the bad news: There are women out there who find it so burdensome to say no to a man who doesn’t interest them that they consider any overture, no matter the context, content, or intent, to be a form of sexual harassment.
The good news is, these women are silly and very much in the minority."
This made me laugh out loud. I honestly almost always felt flattered by male attention when I was younger. I generally didn't find it threatening and never had a problem politely saying "no."
Honestly, I think it goes all the way back to the playground. When I was growing up in the feral 80s at the tail end of Generation X, the playground and the neighborhood streets was a jungle. We were given a lot of space to regulate each other, which we did - sometimes with fists and sticks.
If a girl gave a boy a good shove for being annoying - and it was more openly acknowledged back then that boys could be really annoying - adults generally shrugged it off, or even told us it was good to stick up for ourselves.
(And I know its really, really taboo now to say "boys will be boys". But when I think back to my own childhood, that phrase was actually used more often to VALIDATE my experiences and my right to stick up for myself as a girl. It was not "boys will be boys, and as a girl you therefore you must tolerate them"; it was rather "boys will be boys, and as a girl you therefore have a right to tell them to shove off by any means necessary." Your personal mileage may vary.)
Now I look at my daughters' experience in school and it is all "Be Kind-ness" and "Inclusivity". Kids' play relationships are a lot more micromanaged by the adults.
The result of this hyper-kindness - I think - is that girls don't get the skills and confidence they need to firmly say "no." Instead they are subtly taught that you must always be "inclusive" and "kind" even at risk to yourself. Girls are taught that safety comes from outside, from parents and administrators and official regulations, rather than from their own self-efficacy. And too much self-efficacy risks being "unkind" or not sufficiently "inclusive".
There is nothing wrong with teaching kids to be kind, but it just seems like there is something really off and contradictory in our culture when it comes to women and girls right now. It's hard to put my finger on. It concerns me as a "Girl Mom."
I figure it must be helicopter parenting. I'm a Gen Xer myself (mid-range) and that's the biggest difference I see between our generation and the ones that followed. I like your use of the term "feral", because it really does feel that way compared to now. Rather than having a controlled schedule of play dates and extracurriculars, we were largely left to manage our own social lives among the local youth. We went out for long periods of unaccountability (I thought my Mom was overbearing and controlling for wanting me to tell her where I was going to be), with a wide physical range enabled by our bicycles that we rode without helmets or kneepads, often getting called to dinner by the far off sound of our mothers' voices, and staying out past dark in the summertime playing various street games. And when we got in trouble in school, we did everything we could to keep our parents from finding out, because they sure weren't going to take our side or become our advocates. Needless to say, things have changed.
You see this now in how modern feminism has taken a decided turn away from themes of personal agency and autonomy when it comes to dating and sex. Even Baby Boomers, who mostly grew up in a world where young female adulthood was still generally thought of as a necessary but perilous process of navigating a world full of predatory males to find one trustworthy and responsible enough to provide a blissfully secure existence of kept womanhood, were taught how fend off overly aggressive males and assert themselves when their "virtue" was on the line. And of course, our generation almost completely dispensed with these patrician norms as women happily took control of their own sex lives like entrepreneurs coming to the "New World".
Fast forward to today, when we have managed to convince ourselves that American college campuses are more dangerous places for women than the Republic of the Congo, and that it is somehow normal female biology to literally enter a state of semi-catatonia in the face of overt sexual advances (which, spoiler alert, is based on highly dubious "research" by a single psychologist). We have somehow managed to unravel the female empowerment that our generation so took to heart and replace it with a fear-based sense of helplessness that, we're straightfacedly told, constitutes social progress. It's hard not to think that "safe space" parenting practices had something to do with this.
All so true.
I also feel like women of our generation were also allowed to have a real voice, freely speak our minds, and advocate for ourselves.
Now, young women who call themselves "feminists," particularly young white women, seem to engage increasingly in rituals of self-abnegation by which they denounce their privilege relative to more intersectionally important identities in the name of "Kindness".
I honestly find it really sick and manipulative.
If I ever see one of my daughters apologizing for her cishet white privileged existence on social media I will lose my everliving sh*t.
I feel you should write a whole article about these ideas. It's interesting the shift in parental control over time (what effects it might have). It's interesting how an inclusive doctrine could make individuals more reliant on authority. A deep dive on "hyper-kindness" could be really interesting even if ultimately there are no "right" or "wrong" answers to these ideas.
On the waitress (or waiter) question, there is also the idea that context is important. Is this the first time you are in a restaurant/bar, or are you just passing through town? Then an approach is very likely inappropriate. Have you built a little bit of a commercial relationship by eating/drinking in the same spot or a while? Then there is a better basis for considering whether an overture for a personal relationship is a good idea.
Really enjoyed the Q+A format of this! I also like how you offered a concrete example of how to be non-creepy since “creepy” is in the eye of the beholder. It’s definitely true that some guys are simply socially awkward and are trying their best.
The thing that really bums me out is how we, as a society, continue to push for safety over freedom. True, less people will get hurt. But also, will you feel a true connection to the 100th person who leaves a phone number napkin with a bunch of legalese and caveats scribbled on the back?
I understand these new unwritten rules exist because of the outliers. And I understand the desire for safety (both physical and psychological). But I do feel like a little more color drains from this world with every additional rule we write.
slip her a card and wait for her to call and you'll get rejected 999/1000 times lol
to answer the post q tho: i don't think it is, but it is situational and up to the women, if the women thinks its sexual harassment then it is.
woman *
by a waitress nonetheless ouch
As a library director I have very much had to coach staff on how it is OK to reject unwanted attention, but also how to recognize if it is someone hitting on them or someone who is just equally awkward (he's not hitting on you, he asked me about my wedding ring too and, while he may be bisexual, it's much more likely he's not good at social situations.)
When I was a younger man I also had many conversations with friends about how you should discount any "vibes" coming from someone who is paid to be nice to you.
As an ugly man, I also understand that there must be a burden of beauty, but the objective benefits seem to outweigh the negatives.