Beyond the legit horror of what these guys (including Trump) will do, it's just so tragic that if the Rs could manage to shake Trump and run reasonable candidates, they could cement strong majorities for the next couple *decades* b/c so many of us Ds (myself included) are utterly fed up with the radical wing that has captured our own party.

Must it end up being this ideological, zero-sum arms race where both parties just gleefully spiral themselves (and all of us) into destruction?

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At this point, yes.

As much as I loathe the progressive left (and I really, truly do), I’m going to be forced to vote for Dems because the alternative is worse. It makes me want to scream.

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This is exactly what the radicals want (though I don't think they are pursuing it deliberately): They want an increasingly radical Republican party because it gives them power to enact what they want when Democrats are in power, because those who would otherwise object have nowhere else to go. Similarly, the Republican radicals love the radicalization of the Democrats for the same reasons.

Two magnets with the same poles forcing each other further apart, leaving those of us in the middle to pound sand. At some point I wonder if there will be a "fuck you" movement in the center. Probably not; we'll just stop voting, or vote largely on prior momentum, and despair.

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MAGA isn't radical unless we agree that traditional Democrat Party principles were radical before the radicals took over the Democrat Party.

If you disagree, then PALLEEAASSE... tell me what those MAGA platform issues are that are so radical. Maybe supporting the American working class? Demanding border security? Demanding criminal laws be enforced and criminals be prosecuted and punished? Defending free speech rights? Defending 2A rights? Supporting oil production, low inflation and low interest rates? Supporting good-paying working class jobs for existing Americans? Demanding that government not be weaponized to destroy political opponents and instead that government power be used to serve the people? Putting SCOTUS judges on the bench that are not radical activist that cannot define woman? Keeping the US involved in expensive and useless foreign conflicts? Driving our debt and deficits orders of magnitude higher than they have ever been, and demanding even more debt spending to buy votes? Keeping woke out of the classroom, government and military? Supporting Israel and opposing the terrorists? Want males to be defined as males, and females to be defined as female as that is what the science says?

Are those the radical ideas that MAGA supports. Because if that is radical, I guess most of the country is radical.

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Oct 27, 2023·edited Oct 27, 2023

MAGA ideals, as they are espoused by MAGA politicians making actual legislative proposals, are not mainstream ideals. Just because Trump won electorally in 2016 does not mean everybody who voted for Trump agrees with the MAGA platform.

The same is true for the far-left. Just because Biden won electorally in 2020 does not mean everybody who voted for Biden agrees with the New Green Deal, or the Democratic Socialists.

What's radical about MAGA supporters and politicians is their willingness to burn it all down rather than submit to the will of the majority. You don't see hard left progressives gleefully holding up military promotions and must-pass budget bills, and then bragging about the chaos it is causing on Steve Bannon's morning show. That's what makes MAGA more radical than any other faction in U.S. political discourse: they're perfectly willing to force a constitutional crisis, up to and including dissolving the Union of States, rather than tolerate policies that the majority of Americans agree with being written into law.

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A couple mistakes here. First McHenry (the bow tied temp) isn't a Gaetz crony but rather a mainstream R who has the position because McCarthy had designated him as an emergency replacement using a post 9/11 provision. The guy who WAS Gaetz's sidekick without whose help he couldn't have succeeded was Hakeem It Jeffries who delivered the D caucus to Gaetz.

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Remember also that Gaetz had a plan B in the event that Dems voted to keep McCarthy in power: "you see! our house majority leader is supported by the enemy! RINO!"

It was win/win for Gaetz. It's always going to be win/win when the goal is to prevent the Federal Government from functioning. These Freedom Caucus district voters want their reps to just gum up the works. A weak, dysfunctional Federal Government is the goal for these sociopaths.

And I mean sociopath in the truest sense of the word: they do not want to participate in or be governed by a society that they disagree with. The problem with the United States, as they see it, is the "Union of States." They've given up on the Constitution entirely.

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Worth remembering that Jeffries offered the Democrats would vote for a Republican Speaker in exchange for bills that had broad bipartisan support getting a floor vote (which they weren't under "majority of the majority". As reasonable as it gets.

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"This implies that most don’t actually believe much of what they say for public consumption"

This may have been true at one time, and I think that it is still true to some extent in the Senate -- although probably less than we'd like to believe, as we'll find out when McConnell finally hangs it up -- but I'm afraid that in the House, the majority of them have been "faking it 'till they feel it" for so long that they actually DO feel it. Those who wouldn't or couldn't conform have been purged. The ones passing for "normies" don't have better views, just better manners.

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Does anyone understand why individuals on the right enjoy the drama of politics so much?

To me, it's the worst part. Totally distracting from policy decisions. I get that there are people on the left swept up in the drama too. Just doesn't seem equivalent. Biden has passed several pieces of legislation and is basically mum besides that. I love it.

Do people really want more angry pretending in politics? Why?

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Trump is a special person. I don't think a non-Trump president will have nearly the kind of drama on the Republican side that Trump did. Even for a "normal" president, Biden is low-key, probably at least in part because he's a wild card in terms of looking like a doddering old man every time he opens his mouth in public. I don't consider that to be a desirable trait.

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I find it very interesting that certain people who worked to overturn the election have been indicted and some have plead guilty, while another has become Speaker.

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Like it or not (not), America is dominated by an extreme political party and it’s not the Republicans. Do the Republicans think that cheating at sports is a fundamental human right and men ‘belong’ in women’s swimming? No. That would be the Democrats. Do the Republicans think that mutilating children is a ‘good thing’ and should be celebrated? No. That would be the Democrats. Do the Republicans embrace racial quotas as opposed to merit? No. that would be the Democrats. Are the Republicans the pro-crime party? No. That would be the Democrats.

This question can actually be quantified. Since the 1990s, Republicans have moved right somewhat . However, the shift among Democrats (to the left) has been considerably greater. See "Pew Research Center: Political Polarization from 1994-2017" (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/). A quote here should help.

"The Pew Research Center does a poll asking Americans about their beliefs on a variety of issues. When plotted on a graph and then animated to show how ideologies have shifted over time, an eye-opening picture emerges. Since 1994, Republicans are only about 8% more conservative in their beliefs. Democrats, meanwhile, are fully 60% more liberal, with the median Democrat now closer to the far left than the center."

A measure of how extreme the dominant left has become is that J. K. Rowling was not invited to the 20 year Harry Potter reunion.

A more significant example, is that hysteria over ‘systemic racism’ is discussed far more now, than when it was actually real.

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