In a left leaning substack, lets just say the truth. Mass immigration of people from muslim countries to gated rigid societies like France, and UK, has not been successful. That's one big reason why Farage and Le Pen are so popular. I lived in France for 20 years. It is not sucessful, and never will be, at integrating immigrants- in spite of black and brown faces on TV and in publicity campaigns.
As a Jew from a family of Polish immigrants... and as a teacher of many successfully integrated immigrants from Nigeria, India, Sri Lanka and beyond... I would (humbly?) suggest that the problem probably doesn't lie in the rigidity of British society and its inability to integrate immigrants.
The economies and societies of both France and UK have dramatically changed in the past 50 years. We can't compare immigration of a generation or two ago to today. Back then there was a huge need for unskilled labor as well as little in the way of welfare payments. Today in France you need a degree to be a waiter or a hairdresser and you can live comfortably on public assistance if you cant work.
As you say, many immigrants DO sucessfully integrate. My own family includes immigrants from North Africa who are doctors. I would suggest that what is needed is well managed immigration policy which favors skilled immigrants, in fields that are short of people. Right wing voters are not against all immigration, they are against uncontrolled unmanaged immigration coupled with weird DEI mythology.
You ask us to embrace a Judaism in which we do not believe. Many of us are secular Jews. we are proud to be Jewish. We cringe whenever someone in the news who does something bad is Jewish. We qvell when we read of Jewish people doing something good. But we do not believe in an all-powerful deity like Adonai.
To the rest of the world, we still are Jews. If believing Jews shut us out, that will not reduce antisemitism. It will make us angry, but it also should not reduce our connection to our Hebrew past.
Think of this, please, in terms of young Jews. Take this example: Though even at 13, I was a non-believer, I was Bar Mitzvah because my grandma (who was Orthodox) would have been disappointed otherwise, and I recognized that I owed it to her. But at the end of the service, an old man blocked my way and insisted that I was "a good boy" and should come to synagogue regularly. I was frightened and put off. The incident made me want not to attend synagogue. You make me feel that way again, some 73 years later.
Firstly, genuinely, I'm sorry to have made you feel that way.
As a point of clarification, I didn't mention God. I described several components of a cultural heritage that I imbue with religious meaning but many do not.
I am not asking anyone to believe. I am not shutting anybody out. I am suggesting that unless we embrace the beautiful elements of our story, heritage and language... we are surviving a Judaism which is likely limited to tragedy.
You cannot pretend that anti-Zionism is antisemitism and then not do some soul-searching about your propaganda when Israeli crimes push weak minds to take revenge on Jews outside of Israel. Also, all the hullabaloo about an attack that, though despicable, only resulted in two people wounded is crowding out information about Israeli crimes against humanity, the Gaza genocide and our essential complicity in them. And that is clearly its function. Time for a reckoning perhaps?
1) There's an important distinction to be made between legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy/behaviour and the denial of Israel's right to exist in any form.
Plenty of people disagree with Trump's America, yet I've yet to hear mainstream calls denying America's right to exist. Many countries are (quietly) accused of atrocities likeSudan, China... Russia but there is no outcry for an intafada against them (and there citizens living abroad, or people with the same religion as the country).
2) The concern here isn't about this specific incident in isolation - it's about a broader climate that is visibly growing. On religious hate crime in the UK: last year, 29% of police incidents were committed against Jews and 45% against Muslims. At first glance, this might seem to support claims of disproportionate media focus on antisemitism. But that framing collapses once you account for the fact that Muslims outnumber Jews in this country by roughly 13 to 1. Adjusted for population, the picture is stark: approximately 12 in every 10,000 Muslims were victims of hate crime, compared to around 106 in every 10,000 Jews.
As for the conspiracy regarding the crowding out of the reporting of Israeli crimes... I've seen a fair amount of news on both... happy to share links to reputable and less reputable media outlets, if that would be helpful?
The whole “right to exist” thing is, and I weigh my words, ridiculous. It’s a total non-concept both in law and in fact. It is also only heard in pro-Israel propaganda. As for the supposed fixation with Israel, Sudan, China and Russia are not supported by Western governments with our tax money. Criticising them is legal and does not result in accusations of Sudanophobia, Sinophobia or Russophobia. Israel on the other hand would fold instantly if it weren’t for us and there are moves to make any criticism of Israel a crime. Here. In Europe. The reality that we all know however is that Israel is committing abominable and inexcusable crimes on a massive scale, starting with the Gaza genocide. If you dare say so, some people make it sound as if you wanted to reopen Auschwitz. Well f… that. Especially knowing that Israel’s supporters in Europe, excepting Jews of course, tend to be the political descendants of the people who operated Auschwitz. My forebears on the other hand behaved honourably during WW2 and paid a heavy price at the hands of the grandfathers of the “friends of Israel” who love Jews only when they murder Arabs.
As for the “broader climate”, as long as Israel pretends that its “right to exist” requires to end other people’s existence, and does exactly that with abandon, decent people everywhere are going to be disgusted by its actions. That is what you should be concentrating on, not largely imaginary “hate crimes” which by the way we have since learned this one was certainly not.
I understand and up to a point can even empathise with the fact that all of this must be hard for Jews who are not genocidal maniacs to come to terms with. If you need any pointers to Jews inside and outside of Israel who are - in my view at least- saving the honour of Jews and Judaism by reacting like human beings to the horrors supposedly committed to protect them, I’d be glad to help.
Thank you for your reply and I'm sorry if my earlier message came across as sarcastic. That wasn't my intention, and I'd rather have this conversation civilly, because I think you're raising points worth engaging with seriously.
But I want to gently push back on a few things:
On the 'right to exist' - I take your legal point, and it's fair to interrogate the phrase. But when that concept is removed entirely, and the conversation shifts toward dismantling the state altogether, that's where many Jewish people - including those deeply critical of the Israeli government - find it hard to follow. There's a meaningful difference between demanding accountability for a government's actions and calling for the elimination of the state itself...
On the Holocaust comparisons - I'm genuinely asking, not accusing: when you wrote about people 'making it sound like you want to reopen Auschwitz,' who did you mean? I wrote that article as a British Jew, not as a spokesman for the Israeli government. Are you drawing a line between me and Israel's actions, or conflating us? I ask because I honestly couldn't tell.
And this is the part I'd really ask you to sit with: you move, in the same comment, from (legitimately) criticising Israel's actions - which is entirely legitimate - to phrases like 'Jews who are not genocidal maniacs.' That framing implies the majority are. I don't think you meant it that way, but can you see how that lands? That's precisely the kind of slide - from criticising a government to characterising a people - that makes Jews feel uncomfortable.
Zionism doesn't necessitate mass slaughter... being anti-genocide makes sense to me, being anti-zionist makes less sense.
The Jewish community is, I'd argue, far more comfortable with proportionate, robust criticism of Israel and its policies than we're often given credit for. What's harder is when the logic tips into questioning whether Jewish self-determination has any legitimacy at all, or when the language stops being about what Israel does and starts being about what Jews are.
I don't doubt your family's history or your good faith. I'm just asking for the same assumption in return.
From the Financial Times: "Suleiman has been charged with three counts of attempted murder and one count of possessing a knife." He knifed another man, a Muslim, first. He lives in accommodation supporting the mentally ill. Facts can sometimes be inconvenient.
Personally, I love travelling, even more so with my wife. We visited Israel 4-5 years ago and I was struck by 3 things: 1: in my country, the cities/towns sit mainly on river crossings - in Israel, they seemed to occupy tops of hills. 2: It really is a Holy Land 3: the apartheid of the Palestinians.
I like to think I have great respect for Judaism. But no respect for those who participate in, or acquiesce, to the genocide in Gaza.
In terms of the inconvenient of facts... (as said above) the concern here isn't about this specific incident in isolation - it's about a broader climate.
In the UK: last year, 29% of police incidents were committed against Jews and 45% against Muslims.
Muslims outnumber Jews in this country by roughly 13 to 1. Adjusted for population, approximately 12 in every 10,000 Muslims were victims of hate crime, compared to around 106 in every 10,000 Jews.
Are these stats more convenient?
I'm glad you enjoy travelling, and I hope your wife doesn't mind going with you too... As a well-travelled person, I'm sure you would acknowledge that are tourist visit 5 years ago is unlikely to provide an authoritative perspective.
Israel is small, they have towns everywhere... hilltops and river crossings - even in the middle of the desert. It is the Holy Land... and I'm not sure you and I have the same functional definition of apartheid - it just feels like a lazy use of language to describe a nuanced inequality in order to invest it with emotive repulsion (but that's just me). It also ignores the fact that functionally, Israelis and Palestinians have different governments, passports etc... I'm not sure if you examined Jewish rights in the Palestinian picture it would paint healthier picture of integration.
And just to clarify... are you grouping together people that actively participate in genocide and those that are not protesting (possibly because they do not believe it is a genocide)?
I am aware of the high number of reported incidents concerning Jews in the UK, whether they are motivated by antisemitism or by anti-Israeli feeling. I do not equate those motivations, but understand how differentiating between them is often impossible.
I travel a lot (as does my wife(!). I have been to all the countries in the current 'Iran war', including Iran, to Afghanistan, to India and every surrounding country, to South Africa (the basis of my comment about apartheid), to over 65 countries. My very brief comments about Israel were set against that background. The comment about "hilltop towns" was because that was what jumped out, while travelling there - it was, in my comparative experience, quite unusual.
I have some small understanding of 'genocide'. Visiting Auschwitz was absolutely shocking, numbing - a dark experience. Maybe 'pogrom' would be a more accurate description.
The supposed justification for all those crimes is that Israel could not survive without them. So isn’t it really Zionist propaganda that invites calls to dismantle Israel? And that’s probably exactly what these propagandists want as it makes Israelis think there are no other options than what they are doing now.
As for the Auschwitz reference, what I mean is that I am enraged, as are many people, with the accusations of antisemitism that are thrown around with gay abandon every time someone has the temerity to criticize the self-proclaimed “Jewish state.” It is precisely because of Auschwitz that some restraint is in order before calling someone an antisemite, because it’s almost the same as calling them a nazi.
When I refer to “Jews who are not genocidal maniacs” that does not imply any statement about how numerous they are. And can you please not concentrate on the finger, and look at the moon? Or did you not hear Jews who state without shame that Gaza is inhabited by “animals”, who “do not deserve to live” and more of that sort of language that does in fact recall Auschwitz? I did not count them but I can show you enough examples to make you want to puke. And it goes from taxi drivers to ministers and even, shamefully, rabbis although this last group prefers references to Amalek.
As for the Jewish community’s supposed comfort with criticism of Israel, as I do not think you are in bad faith I can only conclude that you are seriously deluded, or sheltered maybe. What I see is hysteria, persecution mania and ostracism of Jews who do not toe the line, even inside families.
Finally criticism of “Jewish self-determination” is just as fair as criticism of Scottish, Catalan, Kurdish, Slovak etc. self-determination. Did you notice there is a lot of that? And there were/are actually quite some Jews who did/do exactly that, from the Bund to Neturei Karta. Also, as a non-Jewish European, I think it would have been better if in 1948 European Jews had stayed in Europe as equal citizens instead of colonising Palestine. You might disagree with the idea, which is moot anyway, but you cannot deny that is actually the opposite of antisemitism.
On the crimes: I think this is actually where a lot of the conversation breaks down, because not everyone agrees on that framing from the outset. I find much of what is happening deeply troubling, but the moment 'crimes' or 'genocide' is stated as a given, you've already lost half the people you might otherwise persuade. That's not me defending anything, more of an observation. And not because people think that what is happening is ok, but just because I think there is reasonable debate about a) what is actually happening? b) what is reasonable/understandable collateral damage in the context of urban warfare that leans into an argument that the alternative to 'attack' is risk existential threat? c) what is considered reasonable attempts to minimise civillian harm? d) who can fairly determine the 'rules of war'?
On dismantling Israel: I think I follow your logic, but I think that even if you accept that Israel's conduct has been indefensible, the conclusion 'therefore the state shouldn't exist' is a strange one. What many Israelis, and many in the Jewish community, find genuinely hard to hear isn't criticism of Israeli policy. It's the sense that the only acceptable outcome is the end of Jewish sovereignty altogether. You can think the 1948 settlement was wrong and still recognise that dismantling the state now, with millions of people living there, creates a different and possibly worse injustice.
On antisemitism being overused: I think you're right that it's been weaponised, and that's done real damage, including to its credibility when it's genuine. My article was partly trying to make that point. But 'overused' doesn't mean 'never real.' The two things can coexist, and I'd rather we found a way to make that distinction carefully than abandon the concept entirely. I also think it should and needs to be clear that calling someone an anti-semite is not calling them a nazi. I believe there is a real anti-semitism problem in the UK, I do not think there is a nazi problem.
On the 'genocidal maniacs' rhetoric: I hear you, and I've seen those videos too. They're genuinely shameful and I won't defend them. But I'd ask you to apply the same logic you'd apply elsewhere. Taxi drivers, ministers, and religious leaders in every country say appalling things. That's an argument about those individuals, and about a political culture that needs urgent reform. It's not a clean read on an entire community, any more than the ugliest voices in any protest represent everyone marching. You said you don't count them, so neither should I, in either direction.
On Jewish self-determination vs. Scottish or Catalan: the comparison is fair up to a point, but there's a practical difference. Those movements are largely about creating something new. Israel already exists, with a population that has been there for generations. Whatever one thinks about 1948, the question now isn't hypothetical. If sovereignty were 'returned,' what happens to those people? As far as I can tell, the answer isn't reassuring.
On colonisation: I understand why you see it that way, and I know reasonable people disagree. But the Jewish argument isn't simply propaganda or post-hoc justification. It's historically grounded in ways that are hard to dismiss cleanly.
The connection to that land isn't just liturgical, though the liturgy alone is striking: Jews displaced to Europe, North Africa, Yemen, Iraq, Ethiopia and across the Arab world all maintained the same prayer-based yearning to return to the same specific place. That kind of continuity, sustained across wildly different cultures and centuries, is unusual. It mirrors, interestingly, exactly the Palestinian argument about return that I suspect you find legitimate, the idea that displacement over generations doesn't erase indigeneity (not sure this is a word). It's difficult to accept one and dismiss the other on principle.
But beyond liturgy, there is substantial archaeological and historical evidence of continuous Jewish presence in that land. And crucially, there were Jews actually living in Palestine before 1948, before the state, before the waves of Zionist immigration, a small but real community that considered it home. Those Jews were being attacked and killed in the 1920s, decades before the state existed, before occupation was even a concept. That history doesn't resolve anything, but it does complicate the clean 'European colonisers arriving from nowhere' framing considerably.
I am not going to debate whether or not the Israeli crimes and the Gaza Genocide can be framed in a better light or justified. The laws of war (both ad bellum and in bello) and human rights treaties are clear. The violations are proven and unjustifiable. And those who deny them or excuse them are committing an obscenity. Their feelings about being called out do not interest me at all.
I agree that dismantling Israel would only be a new injustice, although that argument becomes less and less convincing as Israeli crimes pile up. It’s mainly a practical question, and hence a question of degree and balance. Let’s not forget also that is exactly what was done to the Palestinians so it’s not inconceivable. Fundamentally, the only people who can legitimise Israel are the Palestinians, with a peace treaty that solves all outstanding issues. And that is precisely what Israel has always sought to avoid and what Netanyahu is now trying to make impossible for his successors with the atrocities of the last years.
What would happen to Israelis if Israel were to disappear, when 80+ % consistently approve the horrors their elected representatives commit and many of them are the willing executioners, the moral weight of that argument is less than you think. It’s a direct function of what Israelis do to others. Also many if not most Israelis have double citizenship and presumably those non-Jewish friends of Israel who are always pretending they love Jews so much would give citizenship to Jews who only have Israeli citizenship. But more seriously, what is wrong with a multinational liberal democracy where all citizens have equal rights? Both you and me live in one. Israelis do not have a God-given right to an apartheid society in which they are top dog. Of course the way they have treated Palestinians is not going to make that easy… Tough sh…t but also totally their problem. Again, only peace and equal rights for all can legitimise Israel.
The “continuous Jewish presence” applies also and much more massively to the Palestinians. What historians always knew is confirmed by modern genetics: the Palestinians are the descendants of the Jews who stayed. Their genetic link with the land, particularly if they are Christian, is stronger than that of the Jews, only the Samaritans show perfect continuity. But the genetics also confirm that modern-day Jews do originate from Palestine. That if you think of it could be a very strong bond, and yet another reason for peace instead of the bad Cain vs. Abel rerun.
So do I wish for Israel to disappear, no. Do I think it would be terrible and should be prevented, after Gaza much less than I used to. And if present trends continue it is becoming both more likely and closer to the least bad option.
Finally, the unashamed premise of almost all Zionist advocacy is that we Europeans should feel closer to Israelis than to Palestinians and consider their lives to be worth more than Palestinian lives. I don’t. And from a lex talionis perspective, the Palestinians are clearly the victims. That is something Israelis would do well to keep in mind.
I find very little in the history and presence of Jewish existence to justify much of any antisemitism or anti-Jewism. There is of course some justification for anti-Zionism, although I see that as more often just a proxy for general Jew hate.
This leads one to the clear-eyed conclusion that there is some evil psychological defect in a percentage of the global population that causes them to irrationally hate Jews.
Looking at a painting of the Christian Last Supper, note that all the attendees depicted are Jews. It seems to me that maybe God, the Christian God... the only God, has instilled this Jew-hating defect within a percentage of the population so that the rest of the people can be reminded of the exitance of evil and the need to be forever vigilant to protect against it.
There is an 800 pound gorilla in the room as the expression goes. After about 2500 years of Jewish diaspora life, I believe that Jews deep down do not, or is it should not, believe that governmental authorities, no matter how good (or bad) intentioned, will provide protection against violent antisemitism.
Learned in a Utube video the lives of minorities in Iran. # 1 astonishing fact- 25000 remain, the rest have been intimidated by mosad to leave for zionist terrorist entity with WMD from the other xristian nationalist MAGA $$. #2 No Synagogue or mosque / temple are " protected" like a war zone elsewhere .#3 Iranian constitution explicitly mentions such minorities be protected.
Forget about the cruelty to protesters that Trump mouths up everyday, it seems we have a different equilibrium in a truly mullah controlled country.
So what gives?
Ever analyzed where zionist gestapos have taken a small mayhem manufacturing ghetto funded by trillion $$ from the US alone has produced for us, the rest of the humanity ? A gestapo unit unparalleled- this time under a Star. Do you not think that there will be spill over everywhere of acting consistently against all humanistic values?
Tragedy is that we cannot stop gestapos in the US nor in ME- in fact UAE wants to ally with zionistas. And the US going strongly in that direction.
In 40 yrs, the only AS I have read / seen is from the very group whose support for genocidial 2nd world world remnants is like Huckabee's.
Let the protests be free , let $$ not muzzle for special SS like folks, let "them" not make laws to prevent boycott... y'all will have a clear vision to stop the spill over.
Famous anti-Zionists include a mix of intellectual, political, and religious figures who oppose the ideology of Jewish nationalism or the state of Israel as a Jewish ethnostate. Key figures include linguist Noam Chomsky, historian Ilan Pappé, author Norman Finkelstein, and religious leaders like Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
Famous anti-Zionists include a mix of intellectual, political, and religious figures who oppose the ideology of Jewish nationalism or the state of Israel as a Jewish ethnostate. Key figures include linguist Noam Chomsky, historian Ilan Pappé, author Norman Finkelstein, and religious leaders like Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
In a left leaning substack, lets just say the truth. Mass immigration of people from muslim countries to gated rigid societies like France, and UK, has not been successful. That's one big reason why Farage and Le Pen are so popular. I lived in France for 20 years. It is not sucessful, and never will be, at integrating immigrants- in spite of black and brown faces on TV and in publicity campaigns.
As a Jew from a family of Polish immigrants... and as a teacher of many successfully integrated immigrants from Nigeria, India, Sri Lanka and beyond... I would (humbly?) suggest that the problem probably doesn't lie in the rigidity of British society and its inability to integrate immigrants.
The economies and societies of both France and UK have dramatically changed in the past 50 years. We can't compare immigration of a generation or two ago to today. Back then there was a huge need for unskilled labor as well as little in the way of welfare payments. Today in France you need a degree to be a waiter or a hairdresser and you can live comfortably on public assistance if you cant work.
As you say, many immigrants DO sucessfully integrate. My own family includes immigrants from North Africa who are doctors. I would suggest that what is needed is well managed immigration policy which favors skilled immigrants, in fields that are short of people. Right wing voters are not against all immigration, they are against uncontrolled unmanaged immigration coupled with weird DEI mythology.
You ask us to embrace a Judaism in which we do not believe. Many of us are secular Jews. we are proud to be Jewish. We cringe whenever someone in the news who does something bad is Jewish. We qvell when we read of Jewish people doing something good. But we do not believe in an all-powerful deity like Adonai.
To the rest of the world, we still are Jews. If believing Jews shut us out, that will not reduce antisemitism. It will make us angry, but it also should not reduce our connection to our Hebrew past.
Think of this, please, in terms of young Jews. Take this example: Though even at 13, I was a non-believer, I was Bar Mitzvah because my grandma (who was Orthodox) would have been disappointed otherwise, and I recognized that I owed it to her. But at the end of the service, an old man blocked my way and insisted that I was "a good boy" and should come to synagogue regularly. I was frightened and put off. The incident made me want not to attend synagogue. You make me feel that way again, some 73 years later.
Firstly, genuinely, I'm sorry to have made you feel that way.
As a point of clarification, I didn't mention God. I described several components of a cultural heritage that I imbue with religious meaning but many do not.
I am not asking anyone to believe. I am not shutting anybody out. I am suggesting that unless we embrace the beautiful elements of our story, heritage and language... we are surviving a Judaism which is likely limited to tragedy.
You cannot pretend that anti-Zionism is antisemitism and then not do some soul-searching about your propaganda when Israeli crimes push weak minds to take revenge on Jews outside of Israel. Also, all the hullabaloo about an attack that, though despicable, only resulted in two people wounded is crowding out information about Israeli crimes against humanity, the Gaza genocide and our essential complicity in them. And that is clearly its function. Time for a reckoning perhaps?
Thanks for the comment.
1) There's an important distinction to be made between legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy/behaviour and the denial of Israel's right to exist in any form.
Plenty of people disagree with Trump's America, yet I've yet to hear mainstream calls denying America's right to exist. Many countries are (quietly) accused of atrocities likeSudan, China... Russia but there is no outcry for an intafada against them (and there citizens living abroad, or people with the same religion as the country).
2) The concern here isn't about this specific incident in isolation - it's about a broader climate that is visibly growing. On religious hate crime in the UK: last year, 29% of police incidents were committed against Jews and 45% against Muslims. At first glance, this might seem to support claims of disproportionate media focus on antisemitism. But that framing collapses once you account for the fact that Muslims outnumber Jews in this country by roughly 13 to 1. Adjusted for population, the picture is stark: approximately 12 in every 10,000 Muslims were victims of hate crime, compared to around 106 in every 10,000 Jews.
As for the conspiracy regarding the crowding out of the reporting of Israeli crimes... I've seen a fair amount of news on both... happy to share links to reputable and less reputable media outlets, if that would be helpful?
The whole “right to exist” thing is, and I weigh my words, ridiculous. It’s a total non-concept both in law and in fact. It is also only heard in pro-Israel propaganda. As for the supposed fixation with Israel, Sudan, China and Russia are not supported by Western governments with our tax money. Criticising them is legal and does not result in accusations of Sudanophobia, Sinophobia or Russophobia. Israel on the other hand would fold instantly if it weren’t for us and there are moves to make any criticism of Israel a crime. Here. In Europe. The reality that we all know however is that Israel is committing abominable and inexcusable crimes on a massive scale, starting with the Gaza genocide. If you dare say so, some people make it sound as if you wanted to reopen Auschwitz. Well f… that. Especially knowing that Israel’s supporters in Europe, excepting Jews of course, tend to be the political descendants of the people who operated Auschwitz. My forebears on the other hand behaved honourably during WW2 and paid a heavy price at the hands of the grandfathers of the “friends of Israel” who love Jews only when they murder Arabs.
As for the “broader climate”, as long as Israel pretends that its “right to exist” requires to end other people’s existence, and does exactly that with abandon, decent people everywhere are going to be disgusted by its actions. That is what you should be concentrating on, not largely imaginary “hate crimes” which by the way we have since learned this one was certainly not.
I understand and up to a point can even empathise with the fact that all of this must be hard for Jews who are not genocidal maniacs to come to terms with. If you need any pointers to Jews inside and outside of Israel who are - in my view at least- saving the honour of Jews and Judaism by reacting like human beings to the horrors supposedly committed to protect them, I’d be glad to help.
Thank you for your reply and I'm sorry if my earlier message came across as sarcastic. That wasn't my intention, and I'd rather have this conversation civilly, because I think you're raising points worth engaging with seriously.
But I want to gently push back on a few things:
On the 'right to exist' - I take your legal point, and it's fair to interrogate the phrase. But when that concept is removed entirely, and the conversation shifts toward dismantling the state altogether, that's where many Jewish people - including those deeply critical of the Israeli government - find it hard to follow. There's a meaningful difference between demanding accountability for a government's actions and calling for the elimination of the state itself...
On the Holocaust comparisons - I'm genuinely asking, not accusing: when you wrote about people 'making it sound like you want to reopen Auschwitz,' who did you mean? I wrote that article as a British Jew, not as a spokesman for the Israeli government. Are you drawing a line between me and Israel's actions, or conflating us? I ask because I honestly couldn't tell.
And this is the part I'd really ask you to sit with: you move, in the same comment, from (legitimately) criticising Israel's actions - which is entirely legitimate - to phrases like 'Jews who are not genocidal maniacs.' That framing implies the majority are. I don't think you meant it that way, but can you see how that lands? That's precisely the kind of slide - from criticising a government to characterising a people - that makes Jews feel uncomfortable.
Zionism doesn't necessitate mass slaughter... being anti-genocide makes sense to me, being anti-zionist makes less sense.
The Jewish community is, I'd argue, far more comfortable with proportionate, robust criticism of Israel and its policies than we're often given credit for. What's harder is when the logic tips into questioning whether Jewish self-determination has any legitimacy at all, or when the language stops being about what Israel does and starts being about what Jews are.
I don't doubt your family's history or your good faith. I'm just asking for the same assumption in return.
From the Financial Times: "Suleiman has been charged with three counts of attempted murder and one count of possessing a knife." He knifed another man, a Muslim, first. He lives in accommodation supporting the mentally ill. Facts can sometimes be inconvenient.
Personally, I love travelling, even more so with my wife. We visited Israel 4-5 years ago and I was struck by 3 things: 1: in my country, the cities/towns sit mainly on river crossings - in Israel, they seemed to occupy tops of hills. 2: It really is a Holy Land 3: the apartheid of the Palestinians.
I like to think I have great respect for Judaism. But no respect for those who participate in, or acquiesce, to the genocide in Gaza.
In terms of the inconvenient of facts... (as said above) the concern here isn't about this specific incident in isolation - it's about a broader climate.
In the UK: last year, 29% of police incidents were committed against Jews and 45% against Muslims.
Muslims outnumber Jews in this country by roughly 13 to 1. Adjusted for population, approximately 12 in every 10,000 Muslims were victims of hate crime, compared to around 106 in every 10,000 Jews.
Are these stats more convenient?
I'm glad you enjoy travelling, and I hope your wife doesn't mind going with you too... As a well-travelled person, I'm sure you would acknowledge that are tourist visit 5 years ago is unlikely to provide an authoritative perspective.
Israel is small, they have towns everywhere... hilltops and river crossings - even in the middle of the desert. It is the Holy Land... and I'm not sure you and I have the same functional definition of apartheid - it just feels like a lazy use of language to describe a nuanced inequality in order to invest it with emotive repulsion (but that's just me). It also ignores the fact that functionally, Israelis and Palestinians have different governments, passports etc... I'm not sure if you examined Jewish rights in the Palestinian picture it would paint healthier picture of integration.
And just to clarify... are you grouping together people that actively participate in genocide and those that are not protesting (possibly because they do not believe it is a genocide)?
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
I am aware of the high number of reported incidents concerning Jews in the UK, whether they are motivated by antisemitism or by anti-Israeli feeling. I do not equate those motivations, but understand how differentiating between them is often impossible.
I travel a lot (as does my wife(!). I have been to all the countries in the current 'Iran war', including Iran, to Afghanistan, to India and every surrounding country, to South Africa (the basis of my comment about apartheid), to over 65 countries. My very brief comments about Israel were set against that background. The comment about "hilltop towns" was because that was what jumped out, while travelling there - it was, in my comparative experience, quite unusual.
I have some small understanding of 'genocide'. Visiting Auschwitz was absolutely shocking, numbing - a dark experience. Maybe 'pogrom' would be a more accurate description.
No offense taken, don’t worry.
The supposed justification for all those crimes is that Israel could not survive without them. So isn’t it really Zionist propaganda that invites calls to dismantle Israel? And that’s probably exactly what these propagandists want as it makes Israelis think there are no other options than what they are doing now.
As for the Auschwitz reference, what I mean is that I am enraged, as are many people, with the accusations of antisemitism that are thrown around with gay abandon every time someone has the temerity to criticize the self-proclaimed “Jewish state.” It is precisely because of Auschwitz that some restraint is in order before calling someone an antisemite, because it’s almost the same as calling them a nazi.
When I refer to “Jews who are not genocidal maniacs” that does not imply any statement about how numerous they are. And can you please not concentrate on the finger, and look at the moon? Or did you not hear Jews who state without shame that Gaza is inhabited by “animals”, who “do not deserve to live” and more of that sort of language that does in fact recall Auschwitz? I did not count them but I can show you enough examples to make you want to puke. And it goes from taxi drivers to ministers and even, shamefully, rabbis although this last group prefers references to Amalek.
As for the Jewish community’s supposed comfort with criticism of Israel, as I do not think you are in bad faith I can only conclude that you are seriously deluded, or sheltered maybe. What I see is hysteria, persecution mania and ostracism of Jews who do not toe the line, even inside families.
Finally criticism of “Jewish self-determination” is just as fair as criticism of Scottish, Catalan, Kurdish, Slovak etc. self-determination. Did you notice there is a lot of that? And there were/are actually quite some Jews who did/do exactly that, from the Bund to Neturei Karta. Also, as a non-Jewish European, I think it would have been better if in 1948 European Jews had stayed in Europe as equal citizens instead of colonising Palestine. You might disagree with the idea, which is moot anyway, but you cannot deny that is actually the opposite of antisemitism.
A few thoughts in response:
On the crimes: I think this is actually where a lot of the conversation breaks down, because not everyone agrees on that framing from the outset. I find much of what is happening deeply troubling, but the moment 'crimes' or 'genocide' is stated as a given, you've already lost half the people you might otherwise persuade. That's not me defending anything, more of an observation. And not because people think that what is happening is ok, but just because I think there is reasonable debate about a) what is actually happening? b) what is reasonable/understandable collateral damage in the context of urban warfare that leans into an argument that the alternative to 'attack' is risk existential threat? c) what is considered reasonable attempts to minimise civillian harm? d) who can fairly determine the 'rules of war'?
On dismantling Israel: I think I follow your logic, but I think that even if you accept that Israel's conduct has been indefensible, the conclusion 'therefore the state shouldn't exist' is a strange one. What many Israelis, and many in the Jewish community, find genuinely hard to hear isn't criticism of Israeli policy. It's the sense that the only acceptable outcome is the end of Jewish sovereignty altogether. You can think the 1948 settlement was wrong and still recognise that dismantling the state now, with millions of people living there, creates a different and possibly worse injustice.
On antisemitism being overused: I think you're right that it's been weaponised, and that's done real damage, including to its credibility when it's genuine. My article was partly trying to make that point. But 'overused' doesn't mean 'never real.' The two things can coexist, and I'd rather we found a way to make that distinction carefully than abandon the concept entirely. I also think it should and needs to be clear that calling someone an anti-semite is not calling them a nazi. I believe there is a real anti-semitism problem in the UK, I do not think there is a nazi problem.
On the 'genocidal maniacs' rhetoric: I hear you, and I've seen those videos too. They're genuinely shameful and I won't defend them. But I'd ask you to apply the same logic you'd apply elsewhere. Taxi drivers, ministers, and religious leaders in every country say appalling things. That's an argument about those individuals, and about a political culture that needs urgent reform. It's not a clean read on an entire community, any more than the ugliest voices in any protest represent everyone marching. You said you don't count them, so neither should I, in either direction.
On Jewish self-determination vs. Scottish or Catalan: the comparison is fair up to a point, but there's a practical difference. Those movements are largely about creating something new. Israel already exists, with a population that has been there for generations. Whatever one thinks about 1948, the question now isn't hypothetical. If sovereignty were 'returned,' what happens to those people? As far as I can tell, the answer isn't reassuring.
On colonisation: I understand why you see it that way, and I know reasonable people disagree. But the Jewish argument isn't simply propaganda or post-hoc justification. It's historically grounded in ways that are hard to dismiss cleanly.
The connection to that land isn't just liturgical, though the liturgy alone is striking: Jews displaced to Europe, North Africa, Yemen, Iraq, Ethiopia and across the Arab world all maintained the same prayer-based yearning to return to the same specific place. That kind of continuity, sustained across wildly different cultures and centuries, is unusual. It mirrors, interestingly, exactly the Palestinian argument about return that I suspect you find legitimate, the idea that displacement over generations doesn't erase indigeneity (not sure this is a word). It's difficult to accept one and dismiss the other on principle.
But beyond liturgy, there is substantial archaeological and historical evidence of continuous Jewish presence in that land. And crucially, there were Jews actually living in Palestine before 1948, before the state, before the waves of Zionist immigration, a small but real community that considered it home. Those Jews were being attacked and killed in the 1920s, decades before the state existed, before occupation was even a concept. That history doesn't resolve anything, but it does complicate the clean 'European colonisers arriving from nowhere' framing considerably.
I am not going to debate whether or not the Israeli crimes and the Gaza Genocide can be framed in a better light or justified. The laws of war (both ad bellum and in bello) and human rights treaties are clear. The violations are proven and unjustifiable. And those who deny them or excuse them are committing an obscenity. Their feelings about being called out do not interest me at all.
I agree that dismantling Israel would only be a new injustice, although that argument becomes less and less convincing as Israeli crimes pile up. It’s mainly a practical question, and hence a question of degree and balance. Let’s not forget also that is exactly what was done to the Palestinians so it’s not inconceivable. Fundamentally, the only people who can legitimise Israel are the Palestinians, with a peace treaty that solves all outstanding issues. And that is precisely what Israel has always sought to avoid and what Netanyahu is now trying to make impossible for his successors with the atrocities of the last years.
What would happen to Israelis if Israel were to disappear, when 80+ % consistently approve the horrors their elected representatives commit and many of them are the willing executioners, the moral weight of that argument is less than you think. It’s a direct function of what Israelis do to others. Also many if not most Israelis have double citizenship and presumably those non-Jewish friends of Israel who are always pretending they love Jews so much would give citizenship to Jews who only have Israeli citizenship. But more seriously, what is wrong with a multinational liberal democracy where all citizens have equal rights? Both you and me live in one. Israelis do not have a God-given right to an apartheid society in which they are top dog. Of course the way they have treated Palestinians is not going to make that easy… Tough sh…t but also totally their problem. Again, only peace and equal rights for all can legitimise Israel.
The “continuous Jewish presence” applies also and much more massively to the Palestinians. What historians always knew is confirmed by modern genetics: the Palestinians are the descendants of the Jews who stayed. Their genetic link with the land, particularly if they are Christian, is stronger than that of the Jews, only the Samaritans show perfect continuity. But the genetics also confirm that modern-day Jews do originate from Palestine. That if you think of it could be a very strong bond, and yet another reason for peace instead of the bad Cain vs. Abel rerun.
So do I wish for Israel to disappear, no. Do I think it would be terrible and should be prevented, after Gaza much less than I used to. And if present trends continue it is becoming both more likely and closer to the least bad option.
Finally, the unashamed premise of almost all Zionist advocacy is that we Europeans should feel closer to Israelis than to Palestinians and consider their lives to be worth more than Palestinian lives. I don’t. And from a lex talionis perspective, the Palestinians are clearly the victims. That is something Israelis would do well to keep in mind.
I find very little in the history and presence of Jewish existence to justify much of any antisemitism or anti-Jewism. There is of course some justification for anti-Zionism, although I see that as more often just a proxy for general Jew hate.
This leads one to the clear-eyed conclusion that there is some evil psychological defect in a percentage of the global population that causes them to irrationally hate Jews.
Looking at a painting of the Christian Last Supper, note that all the attendees depicted are Jews. It seems to me that maybe God, the Christian God... the only God, has instilled this Jew-hating defect within a percentage of the population so that the rest of the people can be reminded of the exitance of evil and the need to be forever vigilant to protect against it.
There is an 800 pound gorilla in the room as the expression goes. After about 2500 years of Jewish diaspora life, I believe that Jews deep down do not, or is it should not, believe that governmental authorities, no matter how good (or bad) intentioned, will provide protection against violent antisemitism.
Learned in a Utube video the lives of minorities in Iran. # 1 astonishing fact- 25000 remain, the rest have been intimidated by mosad to leave for zionist terrorist entity with WMD from the other xristian nationalist MAGA $$. #2 No Synagogue or mosque / temple are " protected" like a war zone elsewhere .#3 Iranian constitution explicitly mentions such minorities be protected.
Forget about the cruelty to protesters that Trump mouths up everyday, it seems we have a different equilibrium in a truly mullah controlled country.
So what gives?
Ever analyzed where zionist gestapos have taken a small mayhem manufacturing ghetto funded by trillion $$ from the US alone has produced for us, the rest of the humanity ? A gestapo unit unparalleled- this time under a Star. Do you not think that there will be spill over everywhere of acting consistently against all humanistic values?
Tragedy is that we cannot stop gestapos in the US nor in ME- in fact UAE wants to ally with zionistas. And the US going strongly in that direction.
In 40 yrs, the only AS I have read / seen is from the very group whose support for genocidial 2nd world world remnants is like Huckabee's.
Let the protests be free , let $$ not muzzle for special SS like folks, let "them" not make laws to prevent boycott... y'all will have a clear vision to stop the spill over.
They will then go after muslims or hindoos...
I mean... thank you for clarifying the source of your 'learning'. It goes a long way to explaining the 'content' of your comment.
Another media illiterate sets us all straight.
details fyi
Famous anti-Zionists include a mix of intellectual, political, and religious figures who oppose the ideology of Jewish nationalism or the state of Israel as a Jewish ethnostate. Key figures include linguist Noam Chomsky, historian Ilan Pappé, author Norman Finkelstein, and religious leaders like Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
more?
nah, too bitter….
details fyi
Famous anti-Zionists include a mix of intellectual, political, and religious figures who oppose the ideology of Jewish nationalism or the state of Israel as a Jewish ethnostate. Key figures include linguist Noam Chomsky, historian Ilan Pappé, author Norman Finkelstein, and religious leaders like Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
more?
nah, too bitter….