People do not like being lectured to, even when it's subtle. People don't like liberal virtue signaling. Many of us don't want to hear about structural racism; we work with people of all races and everyone gets along well. We don't want to hear about how trans people are so persecuted. We are pretty sure that the only places in America where trans people would actually be in physical anger are gang dominated neighborhood in cities . Probably not white gangs. We don't want to hear about climate change from people who vacation in Europe every year.
I too have been plagued by the specter of black and hispanic gangs being the sole cause of preying on transgender people. But I've come to see it's a logical response as transgenders are notorious for lecturing others on climate change and then skipping off to Europe.
Haha. But surely you have heard the claim made by LGBTQ+ advocates and their allies ( propagandized by the media) that trans people are in deadly physical danger in many parts of the United States. They never say that the trans people are in danger in many foreign countries which is probably true. No, they say trans people are in danger in the United States. When I ask: "Where exactly are the trans people in physical danger?", the response is usually some mumbling about red states or rural areas. Now clearly, when you think about this it's absurd. Red states are not filled with knuckle dragging Trump voters who want nothing more than to beat up some Trans people on a Saturday afternoon.... In all honesty, the only possibly dangerous place in the whole country is going to be somewhere there are a lot of recent immigrants from Africa and the Middle East whose cultures are not tolerant. And I don't want to accuse anybody, because probably that's not even the case. Trans people's lives are not in danger in this country, no matter what they believe. However this stupid trope is used to justify trans activism.
I'm not familiar with claims that trans people are generally in "deadly physical danger" anywhere in the U.S. Fortunately the overall U.S. violent crime rate is at a 50 or 60 year low. Some claims of higher suicide rates are out there - not sure if they have been validated. What has been true throughout my (70 yr) lifetime, and I believe long before that, is that those perceived to be in some way sexually abnormal or "disgusting" and hence designated as unworthy do experience violence from those in need of feeling superior at meaningfully higher rates than everyone else - LGB, drag queens, and more recently the distinctions around QTIA+. Same is true for school and social media bullying and other negative social experiences. Seems obvious that some extreme views of the extent society should go in making folks with identifiable sexuality differences feel fully included have gotten out of whack, but of course virtue signalling goes both ways as evidenced by new state laws making the lives of trans people and their families more difficult medically, socially and emotionally, passed purely for politicized culture war purposes to pander to certain more conservative religious groups. I think the situation in other world areas with more religion-focused cultures increases the experience of violence if someone is out/outed with a perceived "deviancy". But those making their online arguments are probably focused on U.S. politics and not situations outside of our jurisdiction.
I absolutely agree that trans people, like LGBTQ, deserve full respect, love, dignity like everyone else. They should not be discriminated against, and should have full civil rights- which they do. I would ask what laws are you referencing in terms of " making their lives more difficult;"? The only laws I know of are the states which have banned gender surgery and prescribing synthetic hormones on minors. Lets be clear that we are talking about giving pre pubescent children chemical castration hormones (in many cases the same as are given to sex offenders) and surgically removing their genitals! This is called " gender affirming care." Its unsupported by science, it's irreversible, it has many terrible long term side effects. So the laws to ban it are progress. Several European countries like Sweden which were allowing this surgery until recently have also banned it now due to bad outcomes. Yet the Biden admin went after the state of Tennessee and Louisiana for passing these laws. SCOTUS supported the states right to ban these surgeries.
The Democrats are where a party should be that hasn’t had a new idea since FDR or, more sympathetically, LBJ. Also, I am 74 years old and haven’t watched network or cable TV for about 5 years.
If the medium is the message, may we conclude that the magaverse and the postmodernists are all Post-Truthers? Truth is bent to accomplish one's political ambitions and vanquish opponents rather than to establish a common foundation of facts and address societal problems. If those are the two controlling factions within US society, is there any future for the "united" part of The United States of America?
May I politely disagree? The MAGA universe exists in a news and information environment totally at odds with true journalism. The MSM historically and currently provides American voters with journalism, sometimes left biased but not dishonest. Liars in the MSM are found out and banished. Mistakes in reporting are discovered and corrected. News and information is vetted by journalists and their multiple fact-checkers and editors. Walter Cronkite was the "most trusted man in America". Then, in 1989, Rush Limbaugh began to weaponize the First Amendment for fun and big profit. Right-wing talk radio hit every major market in the AM and gave the listeners Rush in the afternoon. Journalism standards of reporting were ignored, insults, lies and conspiracy theories were the red meat that created the "Ditto Heads" and the Tea Party patriots. Cable news and information got in on the money train. Murdoch's version was Fox News. Now it has many imitators. The Internet has been an incredible force multiplier of bile. The left cannot fight the information war by being equally cavalier with the truth. If the democratic republic is to be saved, the First Amendment needs to address the hate speech, disinformation, character assassination and conspiracy theories of the current information environment. It certainly won't happen under this administration nor may it ever. However, James Madison made the point clearly: "A democratic republic requires a well-informed electorate". First Amendment purists would rather defend that which has divided us than live in a democracy. Ill-informed voters and democracy are mutually exclusive. Pick a side.
If MSM is so great, Why was the covid origin lab leak story called a racist conspiracy theory for so long? Common sense suggested that since covid first emerged in the neighborhood of a lab doing gain of function research on coronaviruses, that the lab leak origin should be seriously investigated.. Yet to this day, the whole story has never been adequately or honestly covered in MSM. Taibbi, Greenwald, Jeffrey Sachs, Alex Berenson and others have covered it independently Real coverage would include how Fauci leaned on a bunch of high level scientists ( who depend on NIH for grant money) to publish a paper saying covid probably came from nature. These same scientists in emails earlier had said covid probably came from a lab. This is a story which deserved a lot more attention considering how the world was upended for 3 years. And considering what it says about the corruption of science at the highest levels and with the highest stakes.
The corruption of Science is also evident in the "scientific" publications of the US claiming that gender affirming care is positive. Like the boy who cried "wolf", when accurate science is published people will not believe it.
Thanks for reading and reacting to my comment. I am (as a former journalist) not unaware that the MSM has its flaws. When I talk about a comparison between the MSM and the blatantly propaganda prone disinformation industry, I certain am not referring to the likes of Taibbi, Greenwald, Sachs or Berenson. While you are aware of these independent sources of news and information, for which you no doubt pay, multiple millions of voters don't search for such sources because what they report wouldn't coincide with their world view as shaped by the much more popular, accessible and often virtually free disinformation of Fox news and its imitators. I, too, rely on independent sources beyond the MSM for news and accurate information. I suppose that people who do as you and I do, are not the majority of American voters. In the end, that's democracy's challenge.
I agree that there is a lot trash out there on the internet, but some of it is in the MSM too! . Personally I would put both Rachel Maddow, Joy Reid and company as well as most of Fox News in that category. The NY Times didn't cover the Hunter Biden laptop story properly either. Or the blowing up of Nordstream pipeline. The best journalism is being done outside of MSM.
I am pretty much a first amendment purist. I believe that American citizens should be the bosses in our democracy. We should be trusted to be able to make up our own minds about what we read. Any attempt at official censorship will inevitably be politicized - as it was during covid. Now Trump is censoring people who criticize Israel. In Europe, left leaning governments censor people who criticize immigration, or transgender extremism. These are policies supported by the same governments who are censoring. This is political and is very dangerous.
It's not a big deal if small numbers of people have crazy ideas. Which they will, on both sides of the political spectrum. People figure stuff out too, Q Anon died out after Q was wrong on many predictions. Collectively, human beings are wise if they are left alone. The idea that misinformation is some plague which state run censorship can fix is dangerous and profoundly anti-democratic. ( in my opinion- but the founders thought so too! )
Your comments are appreciated and clearly well-reasoned. I remind you, however, that German voters, in all their wisdom of the crowd glory, blithely bought into Hitler's fevered dream because their free speech rights were weaponized by the Goebbel's disinformation machine. Big business went along, as they are here, to protect their balance sheets. It took a World War and an estimated 60 million deaths worldwide before Germany decided that unrestricted free speech wasn't in a democracy's best interest. They put limits on the lies, character assassinations, conspiracy theories, anti-semitism and hate speech and they are a democracy just the same. Don't think it can't happen here. We already have masked enforcers sweeping people off of the streets, workplaces and farm fields with no due process as promised in the constitution, journalists being threatened by the power of the presidency, business being blackmailed so that they can do business, courts being bullied and ignored and a legislative branch a rubber stamp for the administration. The redistricting proposal here in Texas is a blatant political power grab, not a fair distribution of voters. You will likely remain a First Amendment purist, but I'd bet that if James Madison were around to see what can be done to weaponize free speech, he would be in my corner because he understood that a democratic republic requires a well-informed electorate. The spirit of free speech isn't stopping Trump from attacking and abusing it. I, for one, have never fully bought into the "wisdom of the masses". Often, it turns out to be the "wisdom of the mob". I give you the first French revolution as proof.
I very much disagree. On the contrary one of the first things that Hitler did on coming to power was to crack down on free speech. After a year or so, all critics and dissidents were terrified into silence. He started with more gentle punishments, but pretty quickly critics of the regime were being jailed. Opposition newspapers were closed down either legally or by brownshirts just beating people up and destroying printing presses.
I would challenge you to read up on the thirties and Hitlers reign from 1933 on. Censorship and persecution of all critics was intense and powerful. Hitler could not have gone on to do what he did without first eliminating critics and opposition.
This the reality. I'm sorry that Persuasion has been a forum for apologists to the far right and to slamming Democrats for behavior that would be downright centrist in most European countries. And this is actually yet another although Sam makes the medicine go down in a Mary Poppins way!
She would have persuaded at least some of the voters that voting for trump because of his Rogan appearance . And of course her notorious wouldn’t do anything differently interview on the View: https://youtu.be/oMbvsnYqcl8?si=cJ80hqYNA-qNUBXj
To speak to just one aspect of this article - humor is a huge problem for the Dems. SNL, Daily Show, and comedy in general was watchable and entertaining from both sides of the isle. But such comedy is essentially pointing out absurdity in society. Over the last 10 years it has had just one tiresome target - Trump and MAGA.
When your comedy has blinders on, it’s little more than the adult version of school house rock - educational, preachy, censorious, and self-righteous. Instead of watching it for laughs, right-minded people watch it to stoke outrage. Bring back comedy please. fire the current crop and find some folks who think Jasmine Crockett is as balmy as Donald and revels in skewering them both.
Ignoring Biden’s decision to run again in the “autopsy” makes perfect sense. It’s not historiography. Biden will not decide to run again next time. They need to focus on factors that will matter in the next election.
Harris’s strategic mistakes, however, are relevant to the future and should be considered.
How about the Dems just point out the fact that MAGA and the far right have little interest in anything but the white capitalist power structure. And that Fox news is a hellhole of white supremacy. Message enough for this Dem....
People do not like being lectured to, even when it's subtle. People don't like liberal virtue signaling. Many of us don't want to hear about structural racism; we work with people of all races and everyone gets along well. We don't want to hear about how trans people are so persecuted. We are pretty sure that the only places in America where trans people would actually be in physical anger are gang dominated neighborhood in cities . Probably not white gangs. We don't want to hear about climate change from people who vacation in Europe every year.
I too have been plagued by the specter of black and hispanic gangs being the sole cause of preying on transgender people. But I've come to see it's a logical response as transgenders are notorious for lecturing others on climate change and then skipping off to Europe.
Haha. But surely you have heard the claim made by LGBTQ+ advocates and their allies ( propagandized by the media) that trans people are in deadly physical danger in many parts of the United States. They never say that the trans people are in danger in many foreign countries which is probably true. No, they say trans people are in danger in the United States. When I ask: "Where exactly are the trans people in physical danger?", the response is usually some mumbling about red states or rural areas. Now clearly, when you think about this it's absurd. Red states are not filled with knuckle dragging Trump voters who want nothing more than to beat up some Trans people on a Saturday afternoon.... In all honesty, the only possibly dangerous place in the whole country is going to be somewhere there are a lot of recent immigrants from Africa and the Middle East whose cultures are not tolerant. And I don't want to accuse anybody, because probably that's not even the case. Trans people's lives are not in danger in this country, no matter what they believe. However this stupid trope is used to justify trans activism.
I'm not familiar with claims that trans people are generally in "deadly physical danger" anywhere in the U.S. Fortunately the overall U.S. violent crime rate is at a 50 or 60 year low. Some claims of higher suicide rates are out there - not sure if they have been validated. What has been true throughout my (70 yr) lifetime, and I believe long before that, is that those perceived to be in some way sexually abnormal or "disgusting" and hence designated as unworthy do experience violence from those in need of feeling superior at meaningfully higher rates than everyone else - LGB, drag queens, and more recently the distinctions around QTIA+. Same is true for school and social media bullying and other negative social experiences. Seems obvious that some extreme views of the extent society should go in making folks with identifiable sexuality differences feel fully included have gotten out of whack, but of course virtue signalling goes both ways as evidenced by new state laws making the lives of trans people and their families more difficult medically, socially and emotionally, passed purely for politicized culture war purposes to pander to certain more conservative religious groups. I think the situation in other world areas with more religion-focused cultures increases the experience of violence if someone is out/outed with a perceived "deviancy". But those making their online arguments are probably focused on U.S. politics and not situations outside of our jurisdiction.
I absolutely agree that trans people, like LGBTQ, deserve full respect, love, dignity like everyone else. They should not be discriminated against, and should have full civil rights- which they do. I would ask what laws are you referencing in terms of " making their lives more difficult;"? The only laws I know of are the states which have banned gender surgery and prescribing synthetic hormones on minors. Lets be clear that we are talking about giving pre pubescent children chemical castration hormones (in many cases the same as are given to sex offenders) and surgically removing their genitals! This is called " gender affirming care." Its unsupported by science, it's irreversible, it has many terrible long term side effects. So the laws to ban it are progress. Several European countries like Sweden which were allowing this surgery until recently have also banned it now due to bad outcomes. Yet the Biden admin went after the state of Tennessee and Louisiana for passing these laws. SCOTUS supported the states right to ban these surgeries.
The Democrats are where a party should be that hasn’t had a new idea since FDR or, more sympathetically, LBJ. Also, I am 74 years old and haven’t watched network or cable TV for about 5 years.
If the medium is the message, may we conclude that the magaverse and the postmodernists are all Post-Truthers? Truth is bent to accomplish one's political ambitions and vanquish opponents rather than to establish a common foundation of facts and address societal problems. If those are the two controlling factions within US society, is there any future for the "united" part of The United States of America?
May I politely disagree? The MAGA universe exists in a news and information environment totally at odds with true journalism. The MSM historically and currently provides American voters with journalism, sometimes left biased but not dishonest. Liars in the MSM are found out and banished. Mistakes in reporting are discovered and corrected. News and information is vetted by journalists and their multiple fact-checkers and editors. Walter Cronkite was the "most trusted man in America". Then, in 1989, Rush Limbaugh began to weaponize the First Amendment for fun and big profit. Right-wing talk radio hit every major market in the AM and gave the listeners Rush in the afternoon. Journalism standards of reporting were ignored, insults, lies and conspiracy theories were the red meat that created the "Ditto Heads" and the Tea Party patriots. Cable news and information got in on the money train. Murdoch's version was Fox News. Now it has many imitators. The Internet has been an incredible force multiplier of bile. The left cannot fight the information war by being equally cavalier with the truth. If the democratic republic is to be saved, the First Amendment needs to address the hate speech, disinformation, character assassination and conspiracy theories of the current information environment. It certainly won't happen under this administration nor may it ever. However, James Madison made the point clearly: "A democratic republic requires a well-informed electorate". First Amendment purists would rather defend that which has divided us than live in a democracy. Ill-informed voters and democracy are mutually exclusive. Pick a side.
If MSM is so great, Why was the covid origin lab leak story called a racist conspiracy theory for so long? Common sense suggested that since covid first emerged in the neighborhood of a lab doing gain of function research on coronaviruses, that the lab leak origin should be seriously investigated.. Yet to this day, the whole story has never been adequately or honestly covered in MSM. Taibbi, Greenwald, Jeffrey Sachs, Alex Berenson and others have covered it independently Real coverage would include how Fauci leaned on a bunch of high level scientists ( who depend on NIH for grant money) to publish a paper saying covid probably came from nature. These same scientists in emails earlier had said covid probably came from a lab. This is a story which deserved a lot more attention considering how the world was upended for 3 years. And considering what it says about the corruption of science at the highest levels and with the highest stakes.
The corruption of Science is also evident in the "scientific" publications of the US claiming that gender affirming care is positive. Like the boy who cried "wolf", when accurate science is published people will not believe it.
Ms. Williams,
Thanks for reading and reacting to my comment. I am (as a former journalist) not unaware that the MSM has its flaws. When I talk about a comparison between the MSM and the blatantly propaganda prone disinformation industry, I certain am not referring to the likes of Taibbi, Greenwald, Sachs or Berenson. While you are aware of these independent sources of news and information, for which you no doubt pay, multiple millions of voters don't search for such sources because what they report wouldn't coincide with their world view as shaped by the much more popular, accessible and often virtually free disinformation of Fox news and its imitators. I, too, rely on independent sources beyond the MSM for news and accurate information. I suppose that people who do as you and I do, are not the majority of American voters. In the end, that's democracy's challenge.
I agree that there is a lot trash out there on the internet, but some of it is in the MSM too! . Personally I would put both Rachel Maddow, Joy Reid and company as well as most of Fox News in that category. The NY Times didn't cover the Hunter Biden laptop story properly either. Or the blowing up of Nordstream pipeline. The best journalism is being done outside of MSM.
I am pretty much a first amendment purist. I believe that American citizens should be the bosses in our democracy. We should be trusted to be able to make up our own minds about what we read. Any attempt at official censorship will inevitably be politicized - as it was during covid. Now Trump is censoring people who criticize Israel. In Europe, left leaning governments censor people who criticize immigration, or transgender extremism. These are policies supported by the same governments who are censoring. This is political and is very dangerous.
It's not a big deal if small numbers of people have crazy ideas. Which they will, on both sides of the political spectrum. People figure stuff out too, Q Anon died out after Q was wrong on many predictions. Collectively, human beings are wise if they are left alone. The idea that misinformation is some plague which state run censorship can fix is dangerous and profoundly anti-democratic. ( in my opinion- but the founders thought so too! )
Ms. Williams,
Your comments are appreciated and clearly well-reasoned. I remind you, however, that German voters, in all their wisdom of the crowd glory, blithely bought into Hitler's fevered dream because their free speech rights were weaponized by the Goebbel's disinformation machine. Big business went along, as they are here, to protect their balance sheets. It took a World War and an estimated 60 million deaths worldwide before Germany decided that unrestricted free speech wasn't in a democracy's best interest. They put limits on the lies, character assassinations, conspiracy theories, anti-semitism and hate speech and they are a democracy just the same. Don't think it can't happen here. We already have masked enforcers sweeping people off of the streets, workplaces and farm fields with no due process as promised in the constitution, journalists being threatened by the power of the presidency, business being blackmailed so that they can do business, courts being bullied and ignored and a legislative branch a rubber stamp for the administration. The redistricting proposal here in Texas is a blatant political power grab, not a fair distribution of voters. You will likely remain a First Amendment purist, but I'd bet that if James Madison were around to see what can be done to weaponize free speech, he would be in my corner because he understood that a democratic republic requires a well-informed electorate. The spirit of free speech isn't stopping Trump from attacking and abusing it. I, for one, have never fully bought into the "wisdom of the masses". Often, it turns out to be the "wisdom of the mob". I give you the first French revolution as proof.
I very much disagree. On the contrary one of the first things that Hitler did on coming to power was to crack down on free speech. After a year or so, all critics and dissidents were terrified into silence. He started with more gentle punishments, but pretty quickly critics of the regime were being jailed. Opposition newspapers were closed down either legally or by brownshirts just beating people up and destroying printing presses.
I would challenge you to read up on the thirties and Hitlers reign from 1933 on. Censorship and persecution of all critics was intense and powerful. Hitler could not have gone on to do what he did without first eliminating critics and opposition.
This the reality. I'm sorry that Persuasion has been a forum for apologists to the far right and to slamming Democrats for behavior that would be downright centrist in most European countries. And this is actually yet another although Sam makes the medicine go down in a Mary Poppins way!
Kamala’s non appearance on Rogan was her “potatoe” moment. Rogan is objectively kind of objective! Even a leftist blogger like Freddie DeBoer admits this https://open.substack.com/pub/freddiedeboer/p/joe-rogan-is-still-hiding?r=zdzyw&utm_medium=ios
She would have persuaded at least some of the voters that voting for trump because of his Rogan appearance . And of course her notorious wouldn’t do anything differently interview on the View: https://youtu.be/oMbvsnYqcl8?si=cJ80hqYNA-qNUBXj
To speak to just one aspect of this article - humor is a huge problem for the Dems. SNL, Daily Show, and comedy in general was watchable and entertaining from both sides of the isle. But such comedy is essentially pointing out absurdity in society. Over the last 10 years it has had just one tiresome target - Trump and MAGA.
When your comedy has blinders on, it’s little more than the adult version of school house rock - educational, preachy, censorious, and self-righteous. Instead of watching it for laughs, right-minded people watch it to stoke outrage. Bring back comedy please. fire the current crop and find some folks who think Jasmine Crockett is as balmy as Donald and revels in skewering them both.
Ignoring Biden’s decision to run again in the “autopsy” makes perfect sense. It’s not historiography. Biden will not decide to run again next time. They need to focus on factors that will matter in the next election.
Harris’s strategic mistakes, however, are relevant to the future and should be considered.
How about the Dems just point out the fact that MAGA and the far right have little interest in anything but the white capitalist power structure. And that Fox news is a hellhole of white supremacy. Message enough for this Dem....