The Irish Solution doesn't work in a nation where a Constitutional system is designed to guard personal liberties, irrespective of the popular will. If one believes that abortion in the Roe v. Wade framework should be constitutionally protected, the freedom of a woman to access this should not depend on a majority vote of the residents of her region.
The same goes for the rights of same sex marriage. Ireland, until recently, had a blasphemy law that never could be permitted under our First Amendment. Even if virtually everyone in Ireland wanted the law to remain in force, it still should have been repealed because it violated freedom of expression.
The objective is not direct democracy on every issue. The goal is constitutional democracy. In constitutional democracy the will of the majority must yield to minority rights, in areas of law where the minority should have those rights. If an overwhelming majority of voters in a given state believe that atheists should not be permitted to hold public office, this large majority should still not be able to pass such a prohibition into law.
In most states, the initiative and referendum process exist whereby voters can bypass their elected representatives and directly vote to enact new laws or repeal existing ones However, no such ballot measure, even if passed by a large majority of voters, can go into effect if the result would be the unconstitutional violation of someone's rights.
A pregnant woman shouldn't have to put together a coalition of a majority of people in a given region, in order to be able to have an abortion.
I just listened to "We Don't Know Ourselves", a book about the Irish identity by Fintan O'Toole. Having Irish ancestors who came to the US during and after the Famine, I thought it was a very interesting look at the Irish character.
It is surprising how the views changed from 1983 to 2018 on the face of it, but according to Mr. O'Toole, much of that had to do with the dissatisfaction and disappointment from revelations about the Catholic Church. Because of this, and the influence of mostly American culture on Ireland, many of the severe conservative views on abortion and gay marriage began to change.
My understanding from the book was that the Irish people's eyes were opened with the revelation of sexual scandals and child physical and sexual abuse by priests and within the Catholic educational system. Bringing the hypocrisy out into the open made the Irish think twice about their reverence for Catholic institutions.
As a Conservative Protestant, I am not against abortion with some restrictions on fetal age, and certainly should be available for rape, incest or maternal danger. I am also fine with Gay
marriage.
I am conflicted on the Dobbs decision. On the one hand, even RBG felt that the original Roe decision was flawed. Had that court made the decision based on other factors, could it have survived the current challenge? I am not opposed to SCOTUS decisions based on the Constitution regardless of whether I agree or not, and I would hope the religious beliefs of the Justices would not enter into their decisions.
For better or worse (worse), the identity-politics left will never accept the "Irish Solution". For better or worse (worse), the identity-politics left controls the Biden administration.
The 'woke' left will never accept the 'Irish Solution'. The 'woke' left demands that abortion be legal until birth. The American people don't generally agree. However, the 'woke' are adamant about this. To them any restrictions on abortion are anathema.
The question of representative Democracy vs. referendums is a broad one. Specialized expertise is certainly needed in some cases. For example, how much does the public know about securities law or anti-trust policy?
However, other topics are not quite so esoteric. Let me offer a real world example (that I am somewhat close to). In 1996, the voters of California voted to outlaw racial discrimination (Prop. 209). In 2020, voters in California voted down Prop. 16 which would have legalized racial discrimination. Every major newspaper, corporation, TV station, pubic figure, sports team, etc. supported Prop. 16. The supporters of Prop. 16 outspent their opponents 14-1. Prop. 16 went down in flames at the polls.
MWB, Prop. 209 outlawed racial discrimination in California. Prop. 16 would have legalized it again (by overturning Prop. 209). In real life, every major news et etc supported legalizing racial discrimination. Let me quote from "Affirmative action has tons of endorsements — so why is Prop. 16 trailing?" (Cal Matters) "Many voters like Kong — aligned with the Democratic Party — are breaking ranks and planning to vote against Prop. 16, and with that, eschewing the endorsement of the state party and scores of elected Democrats including Gov. Gavin Newsom, Sen. Kamala Harris, not to mention several Bay Area sports teams, business groups, labor unions and large-city newspapers."
The Irish Solution doesn't work in a nation where a Constitutional system is designed to guard personal liberties, irrespective of the popular will. If one believes that abortion in the Roe v. Wade framework should be constitutionally protected, the freedom of a woman to access this should not depend on a majority vote of the residents of her region.
The same goes for the rights of same sex marriage. Ireland, until recently, had a blasphemy law that never could be permitted under our First Amendment. Even if virtually everyone in Ireland wanted the law to remain in force, it still should have been repealed because it violated freedom of expression.
The objective is not direct democracy on every issue. The goal is constitutional democracy. In constitutional democracy the will of the majority must yield to minority rights, in areas of law where the minority should have those rights. If an overwhelming majority of voters in a given state believe that atheists should not be permitted to hold public office, this large majority should still not be able to pass such a prohibition into law.
In most states, the initiative and referendum process exist whereby voters can bypass their elected representatives and directly vote to enact new laws or repeal existing ones However, no such ballot measure, even if passed by a large majority of voters, can go into effect if the result would be the unconstitutional violation of someone's rights.
A pregnant woman shouldn't have to put together a coalition of a majority of people in a given region, in order to be able to have an abortion.
I just listened to "We Don't Know Ourselves", a book about the Irish identity by Fintan O'Toole. Having Irish ancestors who came to the US during and after the Famine, I thought it was a very interesting look at the Irish character.
It is surprising how the views changed from 1983 to 2018 on the face of it, but according to Mr. O'Toole, much of that had to do with the dissatisfaction and disappointment from revelations about the Catholic Church. Because of this, and the influence of mostly American culture on Ireland, many of the severe conservative views on abortion and gay marriage began to change.
My understanding from the book was that the Irish people's eyes were opened with the revelation of sexual scandals and child physical and sexual abuse by priests and within the Catholic educational system. Bringing the hypocrisy out into the open made the Irish think twice about their reverence for Catholic institutions.
As a Conservative Protestant, I am not against abortion with some restrictions on fetal age, and certainly should be available for rape, incest or maternal danger. I am also fine with Gay
marriage.
I am conflicted on the Dobbs decision. On the one hand, even RBG felt that the original Roe decision was flawed. Had that court made the decision based on other factors, could it have survived the current challenge? I am not opposed to SCOTUS decisions based on the Constitution regardless of whether I agree or not, and I would hope the religious beliefs of the Justices would not enter into their decisions.
For better or worse (worse), the identity-politics left will never accept the "Irish Solution". For better or worse (worse), the identity-politics left controls the Biden administration.
The 'woke' left will never accept the 'Irish Solution'. The 'woke' left demands that abortion be legal until birth. The American people don't generally agree. However, the 'woke' are adamant about this. To them any restrictions on abortion are anathema.
The question of representative Democracy vs. referendums is a broad one. Specialized expertise is certainly needed in some cases. For example, how much does the public know about securities law or anti-trust policy?
However, other topics are not quite so esoteric. Let me offer a real world example (that I am somewhat close to). In 1996, the voters of California voted to outlaw racial discrimination (Prop. 209). In 2020, voters in California voted down Prop. 16 which would have legalized racial discrimination. Every major newspaper, corporation, TV station, pubic figure, sports team, etc. supported Prop. 16. The supporters of Prop. 16 outspent their opponents 14-1. Prop. 16 went down in flames at the polls.
MWB, Prop. 209 outlawed racial discrimination in California. Prop. 16 would have legalized it again (by overturning Prop. 209). In real life, every major news et etc supported legalizing racial discrimination. Let me quote from "Affirmative action has tons of endorsements — so why is Prop. 16 trailing?" (Cal Matters) "Many voters like Kong — aligned with the Democratic Party — are breaking ranks and planning to vote against Prop. 16, and with that, eschewing the endorsement of the state party and scores of elected Democrats including Gov. Gavin Newsom, Sen. Kamala Harris, not to mention several Bay Area sports teams, business groups, labor unions and large-city newspapers."
Some people support racial discrimination. Some people oppose. Just a matter of personal taste. I am part of the 'anti' crowd. Just my opinion.
Prop 16 reinstated Affirmative Action.
Prop. 16 didn't do anything. It was defeated by a large margin.
Sorry, I misstated, it's intent was to reinstate AA.
I love this! We need a Citizen's Assembly in the US!