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tom robertshaw's avatar

HI Matt. Do I agree with Trump's style, no. Do I agree the Europeans need a frozen cod upside their heads for not investing in their own defense for 80 years, absolutely. Trump's berating Europe over the last 10 years, far more so than any other president, has moved them to a position of defending themselves rather than asking us to pay for their defense. Trump's style of win-lose is despicable, but it has produced results that reduces past abuses of the "relationship". A little balance please.

Peter Warren's avatar

JD is so wrong about the US that I’m surprised he is the VP of anything.

Ralph J Hodosh's avatar

According to Vance then, I am less of an American because my ancestors came here in the early 20th century. My uncle, who was killed during the Battle of the Bulge and is buried in the American Military Cemetery Luxembourg, did not give up his life for opportunists and charlatans.

Ray Andrews's avatar

> The Founders were powerfully influenced by Enlightenment thinkers like John Locke, who argued that natural rights are the innate possession of every human being.

> ... take their oath to the creedal principles that Vance believes are secondary to heritage.

What people like Matt get wrong is that it's not that heritage is primary *over* creed, it is that creed come from heritage, thus if one ignores heritage one undermines creed. It's not that, say, the foundations of St. Peter's are more important than the cathedral itself, but rather that without those foundations the cathedral could not stand.

Yup, we hold these truths to be self-evident ... but the Ayatollah holds very different truths to be self-evident ... or rather to have been Revealed. The Enlightenment values that the FF held might well be adopted by, say, refugees from Somalia -- it's not impossible -- OTOH, as we see in Minnesota, refugees from Somalia might have no interest in Enlightenment values and might be more interested in how much money they can cheat the taxpayer out of to fund AlShabaab. I suspect, as does Vance, that one's deepest values are not put on as easily as changing shirts -- they do actually involve heritage. Matt might want to believe that Ilhan Omar is, in every atom, as deeply and profoundly American as is JD Vance, but I suspect he is mistaken.

Susan Hofstader's avatar

Vance talks of those who fought in the civil war, yet omits the rather significant matter of which side. His supporters tend to be from the losing side, and maybe therefore have less credibility in terms of upholding the values of the republic they sought to break from.