Dana, let me clarify, “Militants” = “Terrorists”. Perhaps I should have only used the term “Terrorists” throughout the piece for emphasis, for moral clarity if nothing else, but I ended up with a variety of terms for murderous, thuggish, terrorists!
I accept that. The reason I was upset is because the MSM has generally only been using militants, in fear of their staff. Militants are not terrorists; terrorists are not militants. These were evil war criminals who took pleasure in their pogrom.
We seem to feel like if we apply the word 'terrorists' it makes things clearer, but the truth is that militants means soldiers, fighters, and militants can absolutely be terrorists -- or become such. It depends on the kind of movement and on the ideology. Peaceful militants are one thing, violent militants another. The Nazi militants were militants before and after the rise to power, and they did what they did. So the Bolsheviks were militants. And so are the members of Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Daesh, and similar others.
Many organisations have peaceful militants. But it is I believe important to remember that any militant of an organisation that advocates violence can become a terrorist, given the motivation and opportunity.
In a way, it seems to me, calling these monsters militants puts this fact in the right perspective.
People suck, especially young people in their idealistic entitled bubble, with a ubiquitous inability to grasp reality of human evil and get sucked into a mythological narrative of fanciful being that ultimately dooms them to harm from evil. Remember that the Israeli military and intelligence agencies are staffed with new young people in positions of authority. They are a generation removed from the experience of real evil, and more concerned about their next party and Instagram followers.
They are so woke I doubt they even learned from this terrible day. After all, most of them did not get harmed or killed.
Bad times create strong men that create good times that create weak men that create bad times. The weak men have risen during our times of peace and prosperity and bad times have returned again. Let's hope we have enough strong men left to fix the bad. Clearly Netanyahu and Biden are of the weak.
You do not seem to know many Israeli or the situation in Israel, my friend, because your words are ridiculously insulting. It is the propaganda of Islamists (and of the Ultra Orthodox Jews, a large part of whom do not serve in the IDF) that blame the "degeneration" of modern and secular youth.
I can assure you, Israeli military and intelligence are not weakened by party-going, are not "woke", and most Israelis take the defence of their land very seriously. They have many young people because all young people in Israel do military service (save for those exempted for religious cause).
The failure here was the failure of the policy calculations of the present Israeli government, which, as Ehud Olmert pointed out two days ago to the German television, chose to take troops from the Gaza border to move them to the West Bank. There are serious responsibilities and serious miscalculations in the choices of this government. But that is a matter that Israel will have to solve after the threat of Hamas is squashed.
You keep quoting that idiotic meme from Michael Hopf, which is a piece of intolerably smug pseudo-historical drivel made up by a writer of Mad Max type novels. But have the kindness to keep that kind of indecent armchair philosophy off of this tragedy and the blood of real people. Please.
The Mossad failed and it is filled with younger employees. Just like the US security apparatus, it is sick with woke. Unlike you apparently, I am a complete supporter of Israel and of the Jewish people and see that growth of liberal terrorist sympathizers has led to this terrible situation where Israel was left with its guard down.
Are you a Jew? Do you have family in Israel? No? Has any of your children served in the IDF? No? Do you personally know somebody who is or has been in the Mossad? No? Please shut up.
I will discuss Israeli politics and Israel's failures even with the thugs of Otzma, but I cannot stand the insults to Israel's institutions from a "supporter" who, in his comfortable and safe place, blames a tragedy like this on the "moral degeneration" of Israeli youth. You clearly know nothing of Israel, of its history, of its complexity, of the great dream and the sweat and labour and love and tears and blood of Jews upon which it was built and rests. You probably take your information from the propaganda of one of the many American political sides. And I am so very tired of the condescending assessments of gentiles.
It seems that you support Israel just because Israel reflects back to you your anti-liberal bias. It is the same reflex by which parts of the Left support the enemies of Israel just because they reflect back to them their anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist hallucinations, missing the fact that Islamist movements are far-right, fascist ideologies rooted in the rejection of modernity, democracy and freedom -- and of course antisemitic.
The liberal terrorist sympathisers in the West have no bearing on why Hamas could carry out such an attack. There are no liberal terrorist sympathisers in Israel -- the few anti-Zionist groups are extremely religious Haredim.
Israel is not a token piece to use in the political feuds of American culture. I am really fed up with the arrogance of people who talk of what they do not know.
Personally, I don't share your disdain for Netanyahu, but I think the best thing for him to do would be to step down after the war. That's from a combination of the catastrophe happening on his watch, whether or not he did anything wrong, and the fact that it could smooth the path forward.
But if this has been in the works for a year (and I've read elsewhere two years), then it predates this government and overlaps both with it and with the Bennet/Lapid coalition.
I have no disdain for Netanyahu. I disagree with almost every one of his policies and I am appalled at his arrogance and at his choices. You see, half of my family lives in Israel. My son had just come over visiting for a wedding when this happened; most of family, friends and acquaintances are physically unscathed, but emotionally, it is a completely different matter. Yes, politically I and mine are firm opponents of Netanyahu. He forgot that military power is not something you can sit on and grow complacent with, he has been dismissing the advice of his generals now for years, and chose to lean on the Haredim parties who live in a world of fantasy and have been holding his government hostage -- and he did, it pains me to say, objectively help Hamas through a scheme of division of the enemy that backfired. Politicians in Israel have fallen for lesser failures and he will have to go.
But first, there is an enemy to fight, and that enemy Israel fights as one. The internal reckoning will come afterwards... and the common fight may draw more minds and hearts together towards reason and sense.
We needn't argue over what constitutes disdain. All of what you say may be true, and there's evidence to support it, but none of it is proven and it may not be provable.
The Haredim are indeed a problem, but governments of the left have bought their votes just like governments of the right. They make great coalition partners in the sense that don't care what your policies are as long as you fund their constituency and exempt them from army service. Only a handful of politicians, like the Lapids -- father and son -- and Lieberman, have made being anti-Haredi a plank of their platform.
You are right. We need not argue about that, although I felt the need to point out that my position is disagreement with Netanyahu, not the dismissal that the word disdain implies for me.
Proven or not, depending on what level of evidence one believes is required, the existing evidence is, by what I have seen, enough to substantiate grave miscalculations at the very least. But it is the fact that this happened under his watch that will likely force Netanyahu to resign.
It is true that everybody on every side has always catered one way or the other to the Haredim -- they are a big chunk of the population after all, and growing, and they have the right to vote even if they shoulder only few of the duties that citizenship implies. And to be anti-Haredi risks being seen as taking an anti-religious stance. But the Haredim are a problem not just because of their refusal of modernity, which would be all right if it were just a personal closing up in their communities like it mostly is in the Diaspora, but because they live in a perfect echo-chamber, where they only know the words of their Rabbis. And they have become in the recent years more and more aggressive -- often violently so -- not just towards Secular but also Reform Jews. Now with their parties, aside from everything else, they push steadily for the transformation of Israeli society into a religious orthodoxy that is their own interpretation of the Torah -- a vision that with due differences is too similar to the Islamist attitude not to be worrisome. These attitudes are at the core of the far right in Israel and, in my opinion, have been allowed by Netanyahu (in his attachment to personal power that surely is not a flaw of him alone) to overshadow the core principles of Likud.
But all of this is irrelevant now. I love and respect you very much, even if we surely disagree on many points -- but my ability for argumented thought is limited. To be honest I am too anguished, and too furious towards too many.
I hope it won't be misconstrued if I say "I know how you feel". Since Saturday night, anguish has been a constant companion. In normal times, I enjoy a good argument, but I have no urge to be argumentative now. I will share my experience and perspective, though, in case there's anything to be learned from it.
My experience with Haredim (and Harda"lim and certainly religious Zionists) is that they have no interest in forcing their way of life on others. What looks like that is their interest, in the case of the Haredim an obsession, with keeping the impure influence of outsiders away. If they paint over the face of a woman on a billboard it's to prevent their people from seeing it, not others. My own biggest problem with their attitude is that they don't see themselves as part of the country. It doesn't matter what the law says about serving in the army, only what the rabbis say. This manifests itself in ways that are downright silly, like demonstratively jaywalking, because that offense is nowhere mentioned in the Shulkhan Arukh, or not allowing speed bumps on an avenue because the rabbis decided they might cause miscarriages. This rubs against my sense of civil society, as well as simple respect, gratitude and propriety.
In any case, have a Shabbat Shalom and let's pray for the many, many things we urgently need.
Thank you from the heart. There is nothing to misconstrue, as I am sure that you know how I feel. And both of us seem to believe in the power of sharing, even opposing opinions, as there is always something to learn. argumenting, as opposed to arguing.
My personal experience with Haredim in Israel is inexistent, as I have never lived there more than a few weeks at a time for visits. The experience I have is all from the feelings and experiences of family. The father of one of the friends of one of my nephews wrote an article about it a few years ago for a Canadian paper. I will see if I can find it again.
And I do frequently envy the ability to pray, in situations like this. Still somewhat, just the thought, even without faith, is comforting.
Is this The New York Times? “Militants”? Really?
Yascha, you know better.
Dana, let me clarify, “Militants” = “Terrorists”. Perhaps I should have only used the term “Terrorists” throughout the piece for emphasis, for moral clarity if nothing else, but I ended up with a variety of terms for murderous, thuggish, terrorists!
I accept that. The reason I was upset is because the MSM has generally only been using militants, in fear of their staff. Militants are not terrorists; terrorists are not militants. These were evil war criminals who took pleasure in their pogrom.
100%
We seem to feel like if we apply the word 'terrorists' it makes things clearer, but the truth is that militants means soldiers, fighters, and militants can absolutely be terrorists -- or become such. It depends on the kind of movement and on the ideology. Peaceful militants are one thing, violent militants another. The Nazi militants were militants before and after the rise to power, and they did what they did. So the Bolsheviks were militants. And so are the members of Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Daesh, and similar others.
Many organisations have peaceful militants. But it is I believe important to remember that any militant of an organisation that advocates violence can become a terrorist, given the motivation and opportunity.
In a way, it seems to me, calling these monsters militants puts this fact in the right perspective.
People suck, especially young people in their idealistic entitled bubble, with a ubiquitous inability to grasp reality of human evil and get sucked into a mythological narrative of fanciful being that ultimately dooms them to harm from evil. Remember that the Israeli military and intelligence agencies are staffed with new young people in positions of authority. They are a generation removed from the experience of real evil, and more concerned about their next party and Instagram followers.
They are so woke I doubt they even learned from this terrible day. After all, most of them did not get harmed or killed.
Bad times create strong men that create good times that create weak men that create bad times. The weak men have risen during our times of peace and prosperity and bad times have returned again. Let's hope we have enough strong men left to fix the bad. Clearly Netanyahu and Biden are of the weak.
You do not seem to know many Israeli or the situation in Israel, my friend, because your words are ridiculously insulting. It is the propaganda of Islamists (and of the Ultra Orthodox Jews, a large part of whom do not serve in the IDF) that blame the "degeneration" of modern and secular youth.
I can assure you, Israeli military and intelligence are not weakened by party-going, are not "woke", and most Israelis take the defence of their land very seriously. They have many young people because all young people in Israel do military service (save for those exempted for religious cause).
The failure here was the failure of the policy calculations of the present Israeli government, which, as Ehud Olmert pointed out two days ago to the German television, chose to take troops from the Gaza border to move them to the West Bank. There are serious responsibilities and serious miscalculations in the choices of this government. But that is a matter that Israel will have to solve after the threat of Hamas is squashed.
You keep quoting that idiotic meme from Michael Hopf, which is a piece of intolerably smug pseudo-historical drivel made up by a writer of Mad Max type novels. But have the kindness to keep that kind of indecent armchair philosophy off of this tragedy and the blood of real people. Please.
The Mossad failed and it is filled with younger employees. Just like the US security apparatus, it is sick with woke. Unlike you apparently, I am a complete supporter of Israel and of the Jewish people and see that growth of liberal terrorist sympathizers has led to this terrible situation where Israel was left with its guard down.
Are you a Jew? Do you have family in Israel? No? Has any of your children served in the IDF? No? Do you personally know somebody who is or has been in the Mossad? No? Please shut up.
I will discuss Israeli politics and Israel's failures even with the thugs of Otzma, but I cannot stand the insults to Israel's institutions from a "supporter" who, in his comfortable and safe place, blames a tragedy like this on the "moral degeneration" of Israeli youth. You clearly know nothing of Israel, of its history, of its complexity, of the great dream and the sweat and labour and love and tears and blood of Jews upon which it was built and rests. You probably take your information from the propaganda of one of the many American political sides. And I am so very tired of the condescending assessments of gentiles.
It seems that you support Israel just because Israel reflects back to you your anti-liberal bias. It is the same reflex by which parts of the Left support the enemies of Israel just because they reflect back to them their anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist hallucinations, missing the fact that Islamist movements are far-right, fascist ideologies rooted in the rejection of modernity, democracy and freedom -- and of course antisemitic.
The liberal terrorist sympathisers in the West have no bearing on why Hamas could carry out such an attack. There are no liberal terrorist sympathisers in Israel -- the few anti-Zionist groups are extremely religious Haredim.
Israel is not a token piece to use in the political feuds of American culture. I am really fed up with the arrogance of people who talk of what they do not know.
Personally, I don't share your disdain for Netanyahu, but I think the best thing for him to do would be to step down after the war. That's from a combination of the catastrophe happening on his watch, whether or not he did anything wrong, and the fact that it could smooth the path forward.
But if this has been in the works for a year (and I've read elsewhere two years), then it predates this government and overlaps both with it and with the Bennet/Lapid coalition.
I have no disdain for Netanyahu. I disagree with almost every one of his policies and I am appalled at his arrogance and at his choices. You see, half of my family lives in Israel. My son had just come over visiting for a wedding when this happened; most of family, friends and acquaintances are physically unscathed, but emotionally, it is a completely different matter. Yes, politically I and mine are firm opponents of Netanyahu. He forgot that military power is not something you can sit on and grow complacent with, he has been dismissing the advice of his generals now for years, and chose to lean on the Haredim parties who live in a world of fantasy and have been holding his government hostage -- and he did, it pains me to say, objectively help Hamas through a scheme of division of the enemy that backfired. Politicians in Israel have fallen for lesser failures and he will have to go.
But first, there is an enemy to fight, and that enemy Israel fights as one. The internal reckoning will come afterwards... and the common fight may draw more minds and hearts together towards reason and sense.
We needn't argue over what constitutes disdain. All of what you say may be true, and there's evidence to support it, but none of it is proven and it may not be provable.
The Haredim are indeed a problem, but governments of the left have bought their votes just like governments of the right. They make great coalition partners in the sense that don't care what your policies are as long as you fund their constituency and exempt them from army service. Only a handful of politicians, like the Lapids -- father and son -- and Lieberman, have made being anti-Haredi a plank of their platform.
You are right. We need not argue about that, although I felt the need to point out that my position is disagreement with Netanyahu, not the dismissal that the word disdain implies for me.
Proven or not, depending on what level of evidence one believes is required, the existing evidence is, by what I have seen, enough to substantiate grave miscalculations at the very least. But it is the fact that this happened under his watch that will likely force Netanyahu to resign.
It is true that everybody on every side has always catered one way or the other to the Haredim -- they are a big chunk of the population after all, and growing, and they have the right to vote even if they shoulder only few of the duties that citizenship implies. And to be anti-Haredi risks being seen as taking an anti-religious stance. But the Haredim are a problem not just because of their refusal of modernity, which would be all right if it were just a personal closing up in their communities like it mostly is in the Diaspora, but because they live in a perfect echo-chamber, where they only know the words of their Rabbis. And they have become in the recent years more and more aggressive -- often violently so -- not just towards Secular but also Reform Jews. Now with their parties, aside from everything else, they push steadily for the transformation of Israeli society into a religious orthodoxy that is their own interpretation of the Torah -- a vision that with due differences is too similar to the Islamist attitude not to be worrisome. These attitudes are at the core of the far right in Israel and, in my opinion, have been allowed by Netanyahu (in his attachment to personal power that surely is not a flaw of him alone) to overshadow the core principles of Likud.
But all of this is irrelevant now. I love and respect you very much, even if we surely disagree on many points -- but my ability for argumented thought is limited. To be honest I am too anguished, and too furious towards too many.
I hope it won't be misconstrued if I say "I know how you feel". Since Saturday night, anguish has been a constant companion. In normal times, I enjoy a good argument, but I have no urge to be argumentative now. I will share my experience and perspective, though, in case there's anything to be learned from it.
My experience with Haredim (and Harda"lim and certainly religious Zionists) is that they have no interest in forcing their way of life on others. What looks like that is their interest, in the case of the Haredim an obsession, with keeping the impure influence of outsiders away. If they paint over the face of a woman on a billboard it's to prevent their people from seeing it, not others. My own biggest problem with their attitude is that they don't see themselves as part of the country. It doesn't matter what the law says about serving in the army, only what the rabbis say. This manifests itself in ways that are downright silly, like demonstratively jaywalking, because that offense is nowhere mentioned in the Shulkhan Arukh, or not allowing speed bumps on an avenue because the rabbis decided they might cause miscarriages. This rubs against my sense of civil society, as well as simple respect, gratitude and propriety.
In any case, have a Shabbat Shalom and let's pray for the many, many things we urgently need.
Thank you from the heart. There is nothing to misconstrue, as I am sure that you know how I feel. And both of us seem to believe in the power of sharing, even opposing opinions, as there is always something to learn. argumenting, as opposed to arguing.
My personal experience with Haredim in Israel is inexistent, as I have never lived there more than a few weeks at a time for visits. The experience I have is all from the feelings and experiences of family. The father of one of the friends of one of my nephews wrote an article about it a few years ago for a Canadian paper. I will see if I can find it again.
And I do frequently envy the ability to pray, in situations like this. Still somewhat, just the thought, even without faith, is comforting.