17 Comments
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Cara Romanik's avatar

Great article - coming from the South, this is totally relatable. Our public services have also been outsourced, often because of a combination of budget deficits and absent tax infrastructure and a right to work/anti-union environment. Very different causes than LA but similar experience of overpriced options (or lack of options) for residents. What's interesting tho is that I've been in Colorado all summer and am having a similar experience to yours in Utah, except Colorado IS a blue state, but one with the reputation of being willing to deregulate for the sake of outcomes. so I guess I'm just wondering about the bigger story here, when the poorest and richest states can't seem to have nice things and then the places in between are really (no pun intended) nailing it.

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Susan Hofstader's avatar

Maybe it’s actually not a red state/blue state thing—just about not letting ideology and bureaucracy get in the way.

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Ralph J Hodosh's avatar

Maybe I am an optimist, but no matter where you go in the public, private and not-for-profit sectors, you will find departments that manage seemingly against all odds to get the job done. The first thing you notice about well run organizations is that they actually know what there job is.

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Ken Kovar's avatar

That would help!😂

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Cranmer, Charles's avatar

I don't know how pieces like this get published. It is entirely anecdotal, based on cherry picked factoids and reflects no expertise I can identify. My answer to the author; maybe it's harder to run Los Angeles than a rural petting zoo.

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Jacob Savage's avatar

I actually have 3 PhD's in Urban Planning -- Harvard, MIT, and Berkeley.

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Alex's avatar

That's neat and all, but when I ask an LLM to identify the logic in that comment, it says it's in appeal to authority and that there's no argument, so I'm not sure it helped Charles's complaint of a lack of data!

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Jessica G's avatar

Reading this was frustrating. So many fallacies. Why are we spending so much time talking about zoos? Your kids couldn't pet the goats, but poor kids in CA get free school lunches and will likely continue despite cuts to SNAP benefits. Your kids couldn't see any elephants at the one shitty zoo you took them to (ever been to San Diego Zoo, btw? Lots to see there), but women in blue states have access to the full suite of reproductive health care including abortions. Blue states are often mired in bureaucratic red tape and plenty of things aren't functioning well, but in a time when foster kids are about to be kicked off their health coverage and public education, research and science are taking big hits in federal funding, this article feels kinda myopic and whiny. How do we fix the bigger issues? And by "bigger issues" I mean things like the homelessness and affordable housing crises, not the defunct exhibits at the local zoo. It's true that the public needs to hold representatives accountable. But first we need to agree on what the biggest issues are.

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Jacob Savage's avatar

why talk about anything, ever, except for the things you want to talk about?

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Jessica G's avatar

Sorry to jam up your comment thread with my trivial concerns, Jacob.

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Jacob Savage's avatar

"Blue states are often mired in bureaucratic red tape and plenty of things aren't functioning well" -- you said it pretty well yourself.

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Ken Kovar's avatar

Yes totally equating a big city main zoo with a small city suburban petting zoo/farm. Is SLC's zoo a paragon of efficiency?? No data on that though..... The writer believes that "it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail." Well congrats you automated the process with a nail gun!!!🤣

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Warden Gulley's avatar

What a wonderful epithet to claim as your own. "Richard the Lion-Hearted" pales in comparison to Jacob, the "Ticket scalper and occasional writer". Innovative.

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Robert Heisler's avatar

Tempting to broad brush the analysis. Bronx Zoo is pricey but seems to run well.

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Jacob Savage's avatar

not all public-private partnerships are terrible -- my argument is they're a symptom of a refusal to actually govern, though.

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Alex's avatar

I'm really not convinced by the framing of this article, mostly because it doesn't seem to address the theory I find more "obvious", namely, what if the way people act in big cities is different from the way they act in your favorite farm in Utah?

It would have been nice to see some data or statistics to help make a comparison, though I'll admit that a lot of possible stats would seem arbitry (See Yascha's comparison of European QOL and American QOL for a really fantastic job of picking stats out of a hat that don't feel bullshit).

Now you might be thinking: Alex, you could do this yourself. You're correct, I could, but I'm confused why THIS article didn't already do the work. It opened with some fun strong anecdotes and had an amusing tone throughout, but ultimately rose to a similar level of convincingness as Scott Aaronson's "On Blankfaces" https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=5675

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Ken Kovar's avatar

So what’s different about places that still work? Why can Salt Lake County run a gem of a community farm? Why does Boise have a well-regarded county-run tubing operation when L.A. can’t even subcontract out a zoo?

Partly it’s the unions, it’s the Groups, it’s our degraded political culture, in some cases the sheer size of these states or metros—all the standard Abundance stuff. But I’d push back against Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. The belief that good governance can be engineered—that there’s a correct way to govern, some set of magical processes that, if followed, will achieve optimal results—is what led cities to outsource core functions to consultants and nonprofits in the first place. And replacing one bloated public-private technocracy with a slightly more efficient public-private technocracy doesn’t solve this fundamental problem.

Jacob when you can provide us with more than transparent straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks we can totally have an honest dialog....Please be sure to actually read the book, I don't see any real evidence that you did anything but skim AI summaries of it... crack the book and get back to us...

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